Silencers - Why?

[jmorris]

I don’t understand the derision heaped on doing something because it’s cool. What’s wrong with that? I own quite a few things because I think they’re cool. If there’s a practical advantage, plus a cool factor, all the better.

Heck, there are probably a larger number of people in the USA that think they are evil, than cool anyway...

If everyone was a shooter in this Country, you'd have to use them, just like mufflers on cars.

 

[dogtown tom]

I assume you're referring to the 4473 form? That paperwork only exists on record with the dealer used for the transaction (20 years for completed transactions, 5 years for denied/cancelled transactions). It can be queried by LE in the instance of investigating a crime but otherwise falls under the Privacy Act of 1974.

Not true.
Licensees must keep all the 4473's, multiple sale forms and bound books until they give up their FFL.

Now, is it possible for the government to go to every FFL across the nation and request a copy of the forms? Sure I guess anything is possible... but not trying to dive into deep hypotheticals here.

There must be a lawful reason. "Just because" isn't a lawful reason like a firearms trace or criminal investigation.

On the other hand, applying for a C&R FFL requires you notifying local LE, maintaining a black book log of firearms that the ATF can come request to audit any time they want, amidst some other requirements.

Where are you getting this stuff?
ATF cannot audit a licensee more than once per year. Been that way since 1986.

Does applying for an NFA/Class III stamp hold pretty much the same requirements as a C&R FFL? I understand there's going to be some differences but honestly curious. I slightly looked into it once but that was several years ago.

The two have nothing to do with each other.
The 03FFL "Collector of Curios & Relics" allows a person to acquire certain eligible firearms without using a licensed dealer/4473/background check to complete the transfer.
To acquire firearms that are regulated under the NFA, a tax is paid. On approvel the firearm can transfer to you or you can go ahead and make your NFA firearm.

There is no such thing as "Class III firearms". "Class III" is the Special Occupational Tax class for 01FFL "Dealer". Those licensed as 07FFL "Manufacturers pay "Class II" ......it's a tax class and not a firearm. It wasn't an accurate term fifty years ago but still appears.

I had a co-worker some years back who had an FFL. He operated a gun business out of his house on the side. He told me the ATF came to his house one year on Christmas Eve to audit his records. No joke, Christmas Eve! He said he had family over and had to pretty much stop what he was doing and deal with 2 ATF agents at his front door.

I'm home based too, and while its true ATF can show up for a compliance inspection unannounced, its only when the licensee is open for business. He could have said "I'm closed, I'll be open next week" and they would have left.

 

[dogtown tom]

Can you sell a firearm with a silencer in a FTF transfer?

Sure, but that's not OWNING, but SELLING.
There is a difference.

In state NFA transfers do not require an FFL/SOT.
Transfer on a Form 4 and $200 tax.

 

[Hunter 08]

I'd get a silencer if the form work wasn't such a pain. They made it more of an inconvenience on purpose. My AR10 has a adjustable gas block, so that part is a non issue. In regards to increasing accuracy, look at the Scar20s, unsuppressed, abysmal accuracy, about 1.5-2 MOA, suppressed evidently its half MOA. That's significant improvement. In Europe, it's pretty much a requirement if not at least heavily encouraged. Just most people in the US have seen too many movies and so they have a jaded view on how silencers actually are. People are still hung up on the BS spewed in the 1930s during the NFA signing.

Considering the silencer was the name on the original patent that Sir Hiram Maxim put on it, both silencer and suppressor are acceptable. Saying silencer is incorrect is just blatantly ignorant.

 

[dogtown tom]

I'd get a silencer if the form work wasn't such a pain.

The Form 4 is filled out by your FFL/SOT. It's the same information as you put on every Form 4473.
Then you include fingerprints- roll your own on free fingerprint cards from ATF or get the scanned at hundreds of dealers across the country.
Passport style photo- use a fee cell phone app.

Its just that easy. The true pain is the wait.

 

[Jim Watson]

Dealer said today that silencer applications are being processed as soon as two weeks, nothing over four weeks thus far this year.

 

[md7]

My reason is a reduced need for earpro while hunting as well as a few other hunting related benefits.

A 16” barreled 450 bushmaster is pretty loud to the shooter. I like my Walker Game Ears but I like nothing over or in my ears better while hunting.

This. Agree 100%

I also do not care for wearing ear pro for hours on end hunting, and I don’t like (especially during rut when the bucks are moving) donning ear pro and then rushing a shot.

I’ve found a suppressed 18” barrel 308 win to be about as long as a standard length non suppressed 308, it’s comfortably quiet, lessens recoil, nearly eliminates muzzle blast, and is effective on game at the distance I hunt despite the loss of velocity from the shorter barrel.

I can speak only for myself here, but looking cool or having neat gear doesn’t even enter the equation. At all. Almost always hunt solo and don’t frequent public ranges so nobody other than me is looking at it anyhow.

Having an accurate and quiet rig to kill whitetail is the draw here. And worth the price of admission for me.

Right on @earlthegoat2

 

[benEzra]

I asked the same question on another forum and was met with mostly insults and circular logic….80% of suppressors are the result of owners wanting to look cool, or impress their friends. No rational reason…

If you are curious about people’s reasons why they like things you don’t, asking without ascribing childish reasons or irrationality to their preferences will get a much more thoughtful response. When people are derided, they tend to respond in kind.

The thing is, revolvers, or sound suppressors, or big-bore Sharps, or precision rifles, or raceguns, or 3-gun setups, or AUG’s, old lever-actions, whatever, are cool, but I don’t think anyone on this forum owns any of those things to look cool to others; they own them because they admire those things themselves (pride of ownership), or because of their utility, or for sentimental reasons, or whatever, and none of those reasons are stupid.

Speaking for myself, I have never in my life made a gun or accessory purchase because of what I thought someone else would think about it. I have carried an S&W 3913 Lady Smith for over 25 years; I guarantee I did not buy a Lady Smith to “look cool”, even though I think the 3913LS is one of the coolest handguns S&W has ever made.

 

[Nature Boy]

Asking "Silencer-Why?" isn't a genuine question, its trolling. If the reason for purchasing a silencer isn't readily apparent, it takes under a minute to Google the "Why?".

It's a silly as "Guns- Why?", "High capacity magazines- Why" or "Comcealed Carry- Why?"

I tend to agree. Why I don’t think I need a silencer has nothing to do with the desire that others might have to own one (or twenty).

 

[earlthegoat2]

The trade off in weight and length on a hunting rifle just isn’t worth it. For A dedicated range rifle, sure I can get on board with it. It seems like the same crowd who demand that a short action rifle cartridge is the only way to go, are tho first ones to grab a full length action Tikka chambered in a short action cartridge and screw on 5-7” of suppressor. With that logic, it just may be about being part of the Kuiu club.

Maybe you need to purchase lighter rifles.

My Ruger American Ranch 450 BM is 6lbs 11oz loaded with scope and 7lbs 9oz with the Hybrid 46.

The weight of the silencer actually brings the rifle into a more comfortable weight range. Sub-7lb rifles are a bit too light in general and especially when 450 BM is the chambering.

Plus, a 16” barrel is plenty on a 450 as that is about where diminishing returns set in on increased barrel length for that cartridge. The added length of the muffler turns it into a “normal” length rifle.

 

[JDeere]

Hearing damage would be significant, not negligible. Have you ever fired a handgun in a hallway or inside a small room?

No but the last thing on my mind in a SD situation would be worrying about the noise of shots and trying to wield a suppressed pistol around a hallway defending myself.

One thing about this thread is you are either in the suppressed camp or not. Kind of like the Ford vs Chevy debate...Carry On...

 

[1948CJ2A]

Not true.
Licensees must keep all the 4473's, multiple sale forms and bound books until they give up their FFL.

https://regulations.atf.gov/478-129/2016-12100#478-129 - this is where I was getting the 20 years... section B

Where are you getting this stuff?
ATF cannot audit a licensee more than once per year. Been that way since 1986.

Once a year is too much for me!

I'm home based too, and while its true ATF can show up for a compliance inspection unannounced, its only when the licensee is open for business. He could have said "I'm closed, I'll be open next week" and they would have left.

Man, that's the story I got from him... I wasn't there. Enjoy your weekend!

 

[bearcreek]

No but the last thing on my mind in a SD situation would be worrying about the noise of shots and trying to wield a suppressed pistol around a hallway defending myself.

The idea that your future hearing is the last thing that one should be worried about in a self defense situation isn't relevant. In that moment, you obviously don't have a choice. You do have the choice to plan ahead though. You have the option of taking steps ahead of time to save your hearing.

 

[irishlad]

I'd say that 80% of suppressors are the result of owners wanting to look cool, or impress their friends. No rational reason for the cost and physical negatives of adding so much bulk and length to a firearm for most users.

Based on my silencer sales over the last decade I would say thats one of the most ignorant comments Ive read on THR.

It's one of them for sure.

 

[Terry G]

What rimfire silencer is that?
If you paid more than $500.........you should of bought elsewhere. I don't think I;ve ever sold or transferred a rimfire silencer that cost $500.

Banish .22 I'm not blaming Silencer Central, I knew what it would cost going in. I just bought a toy I didn't need. I might be off on the price, it was a while ago. I thought it was four payments of $189.00. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[v8stang289]

I picked up a couple of suppressors last year, and I wish I'd done it years ago. I got one rimfire and one 30 cal centerfire.
It's great being able to shoot my 22 pistols and rifles in the backyard without bothering the neighbors.
And when I shoot my bolt rifles or ARs, I can shoot for hours without the concussion giving me a headache through the ear protection.
Plus it's less aggravating to the landowner where I shoot and hunt.

I have a 45cal can waiting approval now.

The ONLY negatives are cost and wait time. And based on my buddies latest purchase, wait times have gone down significantly.

I don't particularly care if I "look cool" or not. (I'm almost positive that I do not, lol)
Suppressors make shooting much more enjoyable for me and my boys.

 

[OS/N]

When I was a kid it was cooler to say bang bang than pew pew. My pop gun wouldn't have been too cool with a silencer on it.

If they weren't so cheap and easy to legally obtain I would likely have one for all my subsonic firearms.

There is no way I would go through the hassel of getting one to lower a rifles sound level from 150db to 120.

Guy at the club has one on a 22 rifle and I shot a box of ammo through it. After 10 mins or so the cool factor kinda went away and it started to feel like I was shooting a bb gun.

The biggest benifit to me would just be being able to shoot at my personal range without everyone within a mile getting disturbed. I do live in the sticks though so it doesn't matter much either way - no one really complains. At the same time, it would kinda be nice if the surounding folks had them on their guns also to return the favor.

Guess I'll just keep using the only ones I have for the time being -

 

[mavracer]

The irony, I get the cost difference but the fact that guys act like you can shoot a 308 class rifle with one but not the other.

 

[tallpaul]

Read what I wrote....it wasn't about BUYING, but OWNING.
Some people have the misconception that you pay that $200 tax every year.

Again, OWNING a silencer is exactly like any other firearm.

Uh.... no its not and I never said it was a 200.00 tax per year... and it is not exactly the same. You can not take them across state lines without submitting forms and somevstates you can't have them. So get your facts straight... and you have to go through the required steps to own one.... again not the same
.

 

[v8stang289]

You can not take them across state lines without submitting forms and..... So get your facts straight
.

Yeah that first part is not true. There are no forms to submit when travelling with a suppressor, as long as it's one of the 42 free states where they're legal. Just keep your tax stamp and paperwork with it and you're good to go.

 

[bearcreek]

You can not take them across state lines without submitting forms

Can you post the regulation that says that?

 

[marksman13]

Like I said before I belong to a large club gun range with a lot of shooters using suppressors none of the shooters using them are quiet enough to go without hearing protection, if they were that quiet I would think someone would own one. Just the fact that supers will make a noise even after going through a suppressor loud enough to have the need for ear protection. The only exception to this is the .22lr shooters & there is no way I would spend that much to use a can on a .22.
I'm sorry but I would have to say BS to this one.

Every suppressor I own is rated as hearing safe. If folks want additional protection above that, that’s on them. I do hearing tests at work every year and nothing has changed in seven years. I’ve been shooting suppressed rifles without additional hearing protection that whole time. A suppressed 22LR is the ultimate squirrel and Varmint rifle and you can be in a 22LR suppressor for under $400. Or, at least you could the last time I bought one and that’s including the tax stamp. I’m not saying you have to own a suppressor, but I think if you hunted a few times with a suppressed rifle, you’d be impressed with how little it disturbs the environment.

 

[mavracer]

Can you post the regulation that says that?

Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain NFA Firearms (ATF Form 5320.20) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov

 

[marksman13]

Try hunting feral hogs with a Tikka without silencer.......you'll get one.
Try hunting feral hogs with a silencer equipped AR15 and you'll get a dozen before they scatter.....some will run toward you because a silencer also helps disguise the location of the shooter.

Your pigs must be different from mine. Mine scatter on the first shot and sometimes they run straight to me. Sometimes they run a few feet and mill around for a second opportunity, but mostly they make a beeline for the deepest cover as soon as I shoot. I’ve never seen or heard of pigs standing around while someone shoots a dozen of them, suppressed or otherwise.

 

[bearcreek]

Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain NFA Firearms (ATF Form 5320.20) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov

From the form you just posted. "This form is used to obtain permission to temporarily or permanently move your registered National Firearms Act (NFA) machine gun, short barreled rifle or shotgun, or destructive device interstate." Do you see silencers/suppressors on that list?