Guy B. Meredith
Member
I see rave reviews on holsters with the single point loop attachment which provides a pivot feature. I have one and just cannot figure how to keep it in place. Anyone have some sage advice before I toss it into the drawer?
Single pivot loops on IWB
- Thread starter Guy B. Meredith
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Who's the maker?
Which model?
Where is the loop attached?
Is the mouth reinforced?...with what material?
Are you saying it has an actual pivot point or that the loop flexes ?
A picture would really help.
I've owned a Bianchi which pivoted on an attachment point and a Milt Sparks that was designed to shift when worn
Which model?
Where is the loop attached?
Is the mouth reinforced?...with what material?
Are you saying it has an actual pivot point or that the loop flexes ?
A picture would really help.
I've owned a Bianchi which pivoted on an attachment point and a Milt Sparks that was designed to shift when worn
JTQ
Member
The Andrews MacDaniel II has a locking washer, I believe, that keeps the holster from rotating.
http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm
http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm
DT Guy
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There seem to be two schools of thought with IWB holsters. The first wants the holster to remain in a constant position relative to the belt, regardless of the movement of the torso relative to the lower body.
The second wants to holster to move with the torso, changing its position relative to the belt when the torso does.
The single loop holsters address the second school of thought, while the dual loop holsters generally (but not all) address the first.
I have both, and like both, but for different sized guns and different styles of holsters. For instance, for a BHP carried IWB, following the torso increases comfort and concealability; for a Shield carried IWB, locking position relative to the belt works well, since the gun is so flat and small already.
Just IMHO, of course.
Larry
The second wants to holster to move with the torso, changing its position relative to the belt when the torso does.
The single loop holsters address the second school of thought, while the dual loop holsters generally (but not all) address the first.
I have both, and like both, but for different sized guns and different styles of holsters. For instance, for a BHP carried IWB, following the torso increases comfort and concealability; for a Shield carried IWB, locking position relative to the belt works well, since the gun is so flat and small already.
Just IMHO, of course.
Larry
The original Summer Special (SS), designed by Bruce Nelson (and copied by everyone), was designed to shift...for comfort. That is why there is a single loop and it is positioned at the rear of the holster. Milt Sparks produced the SS for Nelson at his request.
It was designed to carry a Colt Commander IWB in the appendix position under a draped shirt...when he worked undercover. It needed to move when he sat down.
On the other end of the IWB spectrum is the Milt Sparks VM II, which hardly moves at all due to it's wide spread loops on the ends of the flaps/wings/extensions
It was designed to carry a Colt Commander IWB in the appendix position under a draped shirt...when he worked undercover. It needed to move when he sat down.
On the other end of the IWB spectrum is the Milt Sparks VM II, which hardly moves at all due to it's wide spread loops on the ends of the flaps/wings/extensions
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
My holster is a Nelson holster similar to the Summer Special in the loop setup--but tuckable--carrying a 4" K frame. It is actually one of the other standards with the loop instead of a clip.
I'll be danged if I can figure out how to make the movement an advantage.
I'll be danged if I can figure out how to make the movement an advantage.
The Summer Special was my first CCW holster for my Colt Combat Commander. I think I paid $12 fro it at a gunshow...they were asking $18.
I wore it at 4 o'clock, just behind the point of my hip and it rode perfectly. It was always exactly in the same place when I reached for it...regardless if I was standing, sitting, or bending down. Ross Seyfried won in IPSC carrying his 1911GM in a Summer Special.
...so, I'm not sure what you mean when you post "make the movement an advantage". How are you seeing it as a disadvantage?
How does it hinder your carry or your presentation?
Maybe I'm just not understanding the issue that it is creating. If you're just going to toss it aside, you can toss it in my direction
I'm certain it was the best $12 I ever spent on a CCW holster...and I have a whole drawer full
I wore it at 4 o'clock, just behind the point of my hip and it rode perfectly. It was always exactly in the same place when I reached for it...regardless if I was standing, sitting, or bending down. Ross Seyfried won in IPSC carrying his 1911GM in a Summer Special.
...so, I'm not sure what you mean when you post "make the movement an advantage". How are you seeing it as a disadvantage?
How does it hinder your carry or your presentation?
Maybe I'm just not understanding the issue that it is creating. If you're just going to toss it aside, you can toss it in my direction
I'm certain it was the best $12 I ever spent on a CCW holster...and I have a whole drawer full
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Hmm... I just put the holster on at about 4 o'clock and we may just have a winner. I'll do some field testing tomorrow. I will probably need to start carrying my wallet on that side to cover some of the bulk of the 4" barrel.
If that works out, I'll owe you a big "thank you!".
I had been trying to carry it forward almost 2 o'clock with a cant. It is comfortable in the forward position, but won't stay there. Always ends up rotating to point to the family jewels.
I will probably need to start carrying my wallet on that side to cover some of the bulk of the 4" barrel.If that works out, I'll owe you a big "thank you!".
I had been trying to carry it forward almost 2 o'clock with a cant. It is comfortable in the forward position, but won't stay there. Always ends up rotating to point to the family jewels.
I had been trying to carry it forward almost 2 o'clock with a cant. It is comfortable in the forward position, but won't stay there. Always ends up rotating to point to the family jewels.
That is what it was designed to do...for when you sit down...to follow the crease of your thigh.
It was originally designed to be worn at 1 o'clock. When you move it toward the hip, your thigh pushes the barrel inward even when you aren't sitting
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Okay, in the 1 o'clock position the gun fits my body contours better, but I'm not sure I can get comfortable with the muzzle in my crouch. Also, in the tucked mode the loop is more obvious than around towards the back.
DT Guy
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Four o'clock will let it follow the long contour of the torso, moving with it. That means the section below the belt will move in your pants (whoa, sounds dirty when you type it out that way) while the section above the belt will remain stationary relative to your torso.
IMHO, that keeps the grip and the majority of the gun from printing much better, especially with a larger weapon, than having the below-belt section stationary, and the above-belt section moving around.
Larry
IMHO, that keeps the grip and the majority of the gun from printing much better, especially with a larger weapon, than having the below-belt section stationary, and the above-belt section moving around.
Larry
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
See http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9368429#post9368429 for the current status on this experiment.
fiftybmg
member
Not very pretty, but it worked for me for just over 20 years, this is the second one, the first wore out.
At the time, I could not find an IWB that could be hooked on the belt, with a swivel, , and had a thumb-break. I took a 6" belt holster and modified it, cutting it down for 4" and sewing closed, removing the normal belt hook for the belt, and adding my swivel loop. These days there is a lot more choice.
The belt loop swivels, and only the barrel is between belt and waist.
The thumb-break is necessary for revolver because it is heavy towards the butt and when you sit down it has the habit of trying to sneak out.
At the time, I could not find an IWB that could be hooked on the belt, with a swivel, , and had a thumb-break. I took a 6" belt holster and modified it, cutting it down for 4" and sewing closed, removing the normal belt hook for the belt, and adding my swivel loop. These days there is a lot more choice.
The belt loop swivels, and only the barrel is between belt and waist.
The thumb-break is necessary for revolver because it is heavy towards the butt and when you sit down it has the habit of trying to sneak out.
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Thank you for the observation on the thumb break. I will give that some thought. My original take was that a tuckable is so burried that it doesn't matter.
fiftybmg
member
It's a matter of preference, how far down the gun goes. And body shape determines if this will work for you. Too much body and not enough in shape means the midsection pushes the revolver butt away and makes it more prominent.
With a 4" barrel, with just the barrel there is enough gun in the pants to keep it in position, so it lessens the profile under the belt, making it much more comfortable. The holster then needs to be able to deal with it 'top heavy', hence the thumbreak and loop.
It's also not possible to do this with a snubby, the whole gun needs to be in.
IWB with a semi auto doesn't have the same problem, and a thumbreak is not necessary.
The cylinder width on a 6-shot revolver is substantial, getting that between you and your belt, and keeping it there while going about your daily business will just give you a permanent bruise.
With a 4" barrel, with just the barrel there is enough gun in the pants to keep it in position, so it lessens the profile under the belt, making it much more comfortable. The holster then needs to be able to deal with it 'top heavy', hence the thumbreak and loop.
It's also not possible to do this with a snubby, the whole gun needs to be in.
IWB with a semi auto doesn't have the same problem, and a thumbreak is not necessary.
The cylinder width on a 6-shot revolver is substantial, getting that between you and your belt, and keeping it there while going about your daily business will just give you a permanent bruise.
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Actually, I meant regarding the thumb break. With so much clothing on top I don't know whether the revolver will work its way out without a thumb break.
fiftybmg
member
You have to try and see. The same holster will not work the same for 2 people. It's an extremely rare and fortunate thing to find the right holster first time trying. It's not unusual to go through five or ten of them before finding the right one.
mdauben
Member
Really? I've never seen an actual Bruce Nelson SS, but the Milt Sparks website states "The Summer Special comes standard with two belt loops, except for small revolvers and some small autos which come with one loop."
JTQ
Member
Did you read the entire description on the Sparks page you probably got the picture and quote from?
http://www.miltsparks.com
It says in the text one of the improvements made to the original design was the addition of a second belt loop.
http://www.miltsparks.com
It says in the text one of the improvements made to the original design was the addition of a second belt loop.
mdauben said:
From back in the day:
From the Milt Sparks website:
45crittergitter
Member
Regarding the previous post:
Yeah, and be sure that thing is always pointing at your femoral artery or knee or something else unimportant.
Yeah, and be sure that thing is always pointing at your femoral artery or knee or something else unimportant.
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Hey, no prolemo, 45crittergitter. Just carry a revolver.
I've been carrying my single loop for several months now and find it works well with just a tidy looking tucked button down shirt. Even my wife does not admit to knowing when I am packing. I hope that this does not just mean she is no longer interested in looking at my crouch.
Not as comfortable as I would like, though, and I don't plan to do any high noon quick draws. I have thought about going back to the folks that built the holster and trying a higher riding version so that a less thick portion is under the belt.
I've been carrying my single loop for several months now and find it works well with just a tidy looking tucked button down shirt. Even my wife does not admit to knowing when I am packing. I hope that this does not just mean she is no longer interested in looking at my crouch.
Not as comfortable as I would like, though, and I don't plan to do any high noon quick draws. I have thought about going back to the folks that built the holster and trying a higher riding version so that a less thick portion is under the belt.
He was a working undercover narcotics officer...sometimes you have to weigh the benefits of various carry methodsRegarding the previous post:
Yeah, and be sure that thing is always pointing at your femoral artery or knee or something else unimportant.
BSA1
member
I have a Sparks EX IWB that I like really well. It has a metal reinforced mouth so it will not collapse after the gun is drawn.
I carry a Star Firestar in it. The Firestar is a all steel sub-compact so it is rather heavy. The extra leather on the EX seems to help with the weight.
I don't know how well it will handle a full size gun like the 1911 but it seems to me it would ride more comfortably with the extra leather.
I carry a Star Firestar in it. The Firestar is a all steel sub-compact so it is rather heavy. The extra leather on the EX seems to help with the weight.
I don't know how well it will handle a full size gun like the 1911 but it seems to me it would ride more comfortably with the extra leather.
The Executive Companion is GTG for a full sized 1911.
It is an evolution of the Summer Special and came before the VM II. The extra leather wings on the body aren't to support weight, but to stabilize the holster inside the pants. The big feature of the EX was the interchangeable belt loops to closely fit the wearer's belt
It is an evolution of the Summer Special and came before the VM II. The extra leather wings on the body aren't to support weight, but to stabilize the holster inside the pants. The big feature of the EX was the interchangeable belt loops to closely fit the wearer's belt
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