SKS or AR?

[illinoisburt]

Thanks for the reply and the picture.

I'm not familiar with the type D and M nomenclature. I've seen those before but didn't think they were originally manufactured with "commercial" intent. I thought Norico or the US importer just dropped un-issued military SKS receivers in "sporter" stocks for the US market.

From what I recall, many of the early commercial guns were basically parts bin builds which may have been from any of the various factories across the country or salvage parts from broken guns. There were some concerns about cracked receivers or bad headspace on the pinned barrels. Of course that was gun store banter before the internet when Fudds were still revered gun gurus.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've built three very different ARs (A2 clone, M4gery, plain vanilla 20" flattie) and I've got 3 very different SKSs (Chinese Bubba job, Chinese model M, stock Yugo M59}.

All are fun in their own way and I have no great preference on the range. Of these, I'd probably prefer the Chinese Bubba for deer hunting because it has better sights (red dot) and works well with a 5 round magazine.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Thanks for the reply and the picture.

I'm not familiar with the type D and M nomenclature. I've seen those before but didn't think they were originally manufactured with "commercial" intent. I thought Norico or the US importer just dropped un-issued military SKS receivers in "sporter" stocks thereby "sporterizing" them for the US market. I'll have to take a closer look at the markings on the receivers the next time I see one with a thumb-hole stock and AK mags....

According to Wyant Lamont and Stephen Fuller's book "Simonov SKS-45 Type Carbines" the Chinese did issue SKS's that took AK-47 mags to the Chinese Army. These are referred to as type 63 or type 68's. Chinese type 56's had the standard 10 rd box magazine. One of either the type 63 or 68 was select-fire but I don't remember which for certain, I think it was the type 68. The type 63 (I think) looks similar to yours but with a standard style SKS stock.

There are a handful of variants of AK47 magazine capable SKS depending on how you look at it. They varied from imported military rifles that were then modified to those that were manufactured directly for the commercial market. I’m having a bard time recalling all of the details because it’s been a while since I’ve paid much attention. If I remember correctly the very first SKS to utilize AK47 magazine was actually built at Midwest Ordnance in the USA. It was this design that Norinco based their design on. To my knowledge the Chinese Army never used the Norinco version but I don’t claim to know everything about it.

Type 63 isn’t an SKS, it’s a select fire SKS successor that uses a rotating lug bolt rather than the SKS tilt lock bolt among other differences. I’m not sure if there are any common parts. They’ve never been imported to the US.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

There are SKSs that take AK mags out there, but I personally wouldn't want one.

The weak point of every semi-auto is the magazine - getting the action to cycle is easy, but feeding bullets to it is the hard part, and dependant on pretty fine geometry. The internal magazine of the SKS is stone cold reliable, and I've heard some of the AK mag conversions don't always work well. And I wouldn't expect them to. Hi cap or detachable magazines sound like a good idea but they're not worth sacrificing the SKS's otherwise total reliability.

 

[Bushpilot]

I've heard some of the AK mag conversions don't always work well.

The conversion kits that change a standard SKS with a box mag into one that takes an AK mag generally don't work that great. The SKS's that were made from the factory to take AK mags work fine...

The internal magazine of the SKS is stone cold reliable

yep....

FWIW
The replacement 20rd box mags that replace the standard 10 rd box work OK too, but that second 10 round stripper doesn't load as well as the first stripper does. Some times a few rounds want to come out of the box when the stripper is taken in and out.. Overall not too bad though...

To my knowledge the Chinese Army never used the Norinco version [sks with ak mag] but I don’t claim to know everything about it.

I've have a picture of the Chinese Army marching with AK mag SKSs but from the picture I can't tell for certain if they are the select fire version or not, I think they are.... The back of the receiver looks a little different on the select-fire version.

 

[chicharrones]

Thanks for the reply and the picture.

I'm not familiar with the type D and M nomenclature. I've seen those before but didn't think they were originally manufactured with "commercial" intent. I thought Norico or the US importer just dropped un-issued military SKS receivers in "sporter" stocks thereby "sporterizing" them for the US market. I'll have to take a closer look at the markings on the receivers the next time I see one with a thumb-hole stock and AK mags....

According to Wyant Lamont and Stephen Fuller's book "Simonov SKS-45 Type Carbines" the Chinese did issue SKS's that took AK-47 mags to the Chinese Army. These are referred to as type 63 or type 68's. Chinese type 56's had the standard 10 rd box magazine. One of either the type 63 or 68 was select-fire but I don't remember which for certain, I think it was the type 68. The type 63 (I think) looks similar to yours but with a standard style SKS stock.

Have you seen this webpage? Click on each of the oval maroon buttons. Seems interesting. http://chinesesks.weebly.com/commercial.html

 

[Bushpilot]

Have you seen this webpage?

Cool website... A lot more variety then I was aware of... I noticed it said that the receivers were commercially stamped... I see what Burt and Colorado said about the Canadian and commercial SKS models....

 

[theotherwaldo]

BTW, I got my SKS model M cheap ($400.00), probably because:

• Somebody had painted it red, white and blue with latex paint and about half had peeled off. Ugly. Twenty minutes with a plastic pot scrubber fixed that - and,
• It came with an array of plastic after-market magazines, none of which worked right with this gun. Regular steel mags worked fine.

 

[Speedo66]

FWIW
The replacement 20rd box mags that replace the standard 10 rd box work OK too, but that second 10 round stripper doesn't load as well as the first stripper does. Some times a few rounds want to come out of the box when the stripper is taken in and out.. Overall not too bad though...

I've got one of those replacement 20 round Chinese made steel mags with the large pressed star on the side, but have never tried it. The plastic Tapco 20 round mag does work well, though I suppose I should give the steel mag a try.

 

[tubeshooter]

Although I wouldn't tell somebody to get rid of a problem-free AR to get an SKS, I do have a soft spot for them. I feel that they are simple and reliable. They are fine for what they are, as long as expectations are reasonable. As has been stated many times, prices were a lot better on SKS rifles in past years.

Sometimes I hear people talk about the ammo becoming suddenly hard to get. I suppose it could happen. If this is a concern, get a spam can of it or buy 2 or 3 boxes whenever you can. It's still pretty cheap for right now.


I will have to admit that you should be able to get 5.56/.223 ammo in the US for at least the next couple of centuries, I would imagine. So there's that. I am not that big on the AR thing (although I do own one), but I like the round in a bolt gun.

 

[Bushpilot]

I've got one of those replacement 20 round Chinese made steel mags with the large pressed star on the side, but have never tried it.

I have 2 of them on SKSs. The only thing I had to do when I installed them is on one of the rifles I needed to remove a little wood in the front of the magazine well so it would swing open far enough to be able to unload it... Otherwise a very straight forward install... On a lesser note, I kind of like the way they look with the 20 rd steel box also...

 

[kBob]

Type 63/68 rifles only looked like SKS to folks not paying attention, though they were described as such by troops and folks seeing pictures.

They were the type of rifle the "Chinese agricultural students" were armed with the night Bull Simmons and his band attacked an abandoned North Vietnamese American POW camp and the Chinese rifles did not fair well against Singlepoint scoped M-16A1 rifles. Yes, being woken from a sound sleep in the darkest hours and charging out the door in a pair of tiny athletic shorts with a type 63/68 with only the 15 round magazine for ammo to face fully equipped hand picked US Special Forces troopers IS NOT not what I would call a good morning.

The 63/68 does not take regular AK 47 magazines, but AK47 magazines can be modified to work in the T63/68. The normal issue T63/68 magazine was a 15 rounder and it is my understanding that those would work in an AK in 7.62x39 mm rifle. I believe the main difference is a slot on the back or spine of the magazine to allow the follower to function a bolt stop with the last round fed.

I am not sure ANY parts interchange between the SKS and Type 63/68. Maybe the butt plate and sights? I can not recall if the Dust cover was fitted with stripper clip guides or even open enough to do so.

My understanding is that the Navy arms folks ASKED the Chinese if an SKS could be made to accept an AK magazine.

About the only SKS accessories I was ever interested in were the rubber butt pad/ extension (got one, still use it, I am not a Duck Butt) and the 20 round fixed magazine. I never got the 20 rounder and heard speculation that they were asked for by an importer and that they were developed during the same time the T63/68 was being looked at as an up grade to the begillion SKS the Chinese had for dance troupes and such, no actually for their version of the national guard. Never saw a political dancer or picture of glorious Peoples Militia with one though.

-kBob

 

[Bushpilot]

As much as I love the Garand, I prefer an SKS.

To each his own, but not me.... I like the SKS well enough but, when compared to a Garand, for me it's no contest. I'll also take an AK over an SKS as well, even over an SKS that takes AK mags, although I realize that SKS's that take AK mags are valuable and sought after.... The SKS stock is just way too short for me, even with the rubber butt extender, the AK stock, although also usually short, feels better to me with it's pistol grip.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

To each his own, but not me.... I like the SKS well enough but, when compared to a Garand, for me it's no contest. I'll also take an AK over an SKS as well, even over an SKS that takes AK mags, although I realize that SKS's that take AK mags are valuable and sought after.... The SKS stock is just way too short for me, even with the rubber butt extender, the AK stock, although also usually short, feels better to me with it's pistol grip.

It’s interesting to me that the SKS often gets a reputation for having such a short LOP. My Yugoslavian SKSs have a nearly identical LOP to my Garand and my M16A1 look-alike. Chinese SKS about a half inch shorter, but still on average longer than an AK or M4 when collapsed at all. Fit is all subjective to the individual though and thennice thing is, those in the USA have options (for now).

 

[Bushpilot]

SKS often gets a reputation for having such a short LOP. My Yugoslavian SKSs have a nearly identical LOP to my Garand

The SKSs that I currently own are Chinese, (the vast majority that are out there are Chinese) which probably have a shorter LOP... I'd like to have a yugo sks if it has a longer LOP but, correct me if I'm wrong on this, don't yugo's have a non-chromed lined bore? Back when I bought the Chinese SKs there was still lots of corrosive steel case ammo around, I still have some of it... I wanted the chrome-lined bore in part for that reason. I think the shape of the grip on SKSs is also part of the problem I have with the way they feel.. Don't misunderstand, I do like the SKS, even with the issues I have with them, Just the Garand feels lots more natural for me as well as other things about them that I like much better then skss..

longer than an AK or M4 when collapsed at all

The pistol grips on AKs helps to alleviate some of the awkward feeling LOP issues. The short LOP doesn't bother me as much with these as it does with my skss. The M4 I don't collapse....

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

True, the SKSs that I currently own are Chinese, (which are the vast majority out there) which run shorter... I'd like to have a yugo sks but, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but don't yugo's have a non-chromed lined bore? Back when I bought the Chinese SKs there was still lots of corrosive steel case ammo around, I still have some of it... I wanted the chrome-lined for that reason. I think the shape of the grip on SKSs is also part of the problem I have with the way they feel.. Don't misunderstand, I do like the SKS, even with the issues I have with them, Just the Garand feels lots more natural for me as well as other things about it I like better..

Yeah, everyone has what they prefer and just because I like an SKS over a Garand doesn’t mean I don’t love the Garand, and just because I favor an AR15 over the SKS doesn’t take away from the SKS.

Barrel materials seem to be a rather hotly debated topic in the military-type firearms circles. The reality is that the vast majority of non-military-type firearms don't have chromed barrels and nobody seems to have much hubbub about it. Most of your Fudd rifle barrel bores are just polished, untreated and oiled 4140 carbon steel barrels. If you aren't using corrosive ammo, it's a non-issue, and even if you do use corrosive primed ammo, you simply need to rinse the barrel with water, dry, and complete your typical cleaning process. You should always do this with corrosive ammo regardless of the barrel treatment. Chrome isn't rust proof, it's simply corrosion resistant. Zastava barrels are quality hammer forged barrels.

 

[AABEN]

AR,S all the way

 

[LoonWulf]

guess what i just got in trade.......

 

[SharpDog]

Keep all your AR's, you'll thank me later. As other's have said, it's a buyers market for AR's and AK platforms are relatively higher in price (relatively). So save up and get an SKS or AK or whatever, but selling an AR now would be throwing money away IMHO.

 

[Candyman87]

I enjoy shooting my SKS but nothing is more practical these days than an AR. Unless you have spam cans and spam cans full of 7.62x39, I'd stick with the AR.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

guess what i just got in trade.......
View attachment 786343

I've always liked the looks a Monte Carlo stock on an SKS.

 

[LoonWulf]

I've always liked the looks a Monte Carlo stock on an SKS.

Me too, I just need a 5 round magazine and I have the quintessential Hawaiian pig blaster (tho that 20rnd mags probably what most of the guys I grew up with used)

 

[adcoch1]

guess what i just got in trade.......


View attachment 786343

I'm jealous, that's a nice one!

 

[Ignition Override]

The early series 'Yugo' SKS rifles have No grenade launchers. They are known as the M59.

You also know about aperture sights? Order the more adjustable of the Two SKS versions from TechSights. Google might help.

TechSights also sells aperture sights for the Mini 14, Ruger 10/22, Marlin 60, AK.

SKSboards provides a wealth of info. Most of the best info is never shared by 'word of mouth' at the range or in gun stores.

 

[LoonWulf]

The one issue I have will the techsights is the way they look, otherwise they seem pretty awesome.
I'm going to modify and glue on a Williams for now to see how it works. If it does I'll do a permanent mount.
Otherwise I'll order the techsights or go to a scope.