Smiley face cut on case mouth using Lee powder through expanding die

This was driving me to distraction so I tried to replicate it in 9mm...and did a decent job. Here is a picture after.

I have to say the case must be at least halfway outside the shellholder to make enough solid contact with die body to deform the case. At that point it is clearly obvious visually.

But even if it's off center and full contact is made, the amount of continuous force/pressure that must be exerted on the handle to crush the case is obviously beyond anything necessary during any step of the 9mm normal loading process using this press/die combination. To me it screams "stop."

I apologize in advance for sounding insulting.

Edit: and sorry for the painful run-on sentence in para 3.
IMG_4523.jpeg
 
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This has me wondering which Breech Lock press he’s using. Lee has used the Breech Lock setup on all of their presses for some time now.
 
GeoDudeFlorida...It's the Breechlock press that's supported front & rear. I've noticed Lee makes a cheaper version with just a rear single support. The ram has no measurable movement when I try to move it side to side or front to back.
 
CQB45ACP...I didn't get to your pic on page 2 until just now. That looks like the beginning phase of what's going on. A continued push down on the ram will produce a smile type cut. Thanks! And no apology needed! No insult detected.
 
nevadabob said:
GeoDudeFlorida...It's the Breechlock press that's supported front & rear. I've noticed Lee makes a cheaper version with just a rear single support. The ram has no measurable movement when I try to move it side to side or front to back.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. 🤔 I’m really curious then. Is it possible the case holder is cut wrong so the cases are tilted going up? Or maybe slipping down a bit on the way up? Try putting a finger on a case while it travels and see if it needs some guidance to find the expander.
 
My Lee #4 shellholder is the one that came with the 4 die set. I went out to the garage and put a case in it and there is some wiggle which makes me think it may be problematic.

Lee and their close enough shell holders.

I read some where that Lee uses sometimes close enough shell holder. The #4 is the culprit in this case. When i prime 32 cal pistol casings. Sometimes it will pop out of the shell holder. I was priming today. And some popped out. So i grabbed my Speer maunuel. They list RCBS tools. Here the...
www.thehighroad.org
 
nevadabob said:
My Lee #4 shellholder is the one that came with the 4 die set. I went out to the garage and put a case in it and there is some wiggle which makes me think it may be problematic.

Lee and their close enough shell holders.

I read some where that Lee uses sometimes close enough shell holder. The #4 is the culprit in this case. When i prime 32 cal pistol casings. Sometimes it will pop out of the shell holder. I was priming today. And some popped out. So i grabbed my Speer maunuel. They list RCBS tools. Here the...
www.thehighroad.org
Click to expand...
RCModel (RIP) posted this once in a similar thread. Very darn useful!
I would suggest getting either a Lymans (my favorite) or RCBS and seeing if it fixes the issue.
 
380 brass is thin and case mouth mangles very easy. Some brands more than others
I use Lee dies and shell holders, they work just fine but if you want to spend more money go for it.

As with resizing you need to guide the brass in the die mouth. sometimes pushing the brass back in the shell holder,

Do you lube your brass? If not try some spray lube

Take the die apart and clean it, take the powder through expander part and polish it with some fine grit wet dry sandpaper.

I have crushed the mouths on many 32 and 380 acp, just have to go slow,


 
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I'm not familiar with the lee presses but I've had this happen when the shell holder isn't tightened down enough and allows the casing to lean a little. This has happened to me with both the hornady and dillon presses. Also, I've had this happen in a single stage press when I've gotten some powder or polishing media inside the lip of the case holder and it didn't allow the casing to enter the shell holder all the way. The case mouth is contacting the edge of the sizing die or the case through expander. That is the only thing I've seen cause this.
 
Just loaded 20 rounds using the #10 RCBS shell holder. If I pulled the handle down too far I could feel "something happening" to the case. Upon examination the smiley face was about to occur by seeing the beginning of damage to the case mouth. But if I took it easy and pulled up just after the powder drop everything went well. I don't think the RCBS shell holder is any better than the Lee. May try the Lee expander plug with the M step. But If I go slow at an even pace I should be OK for now. I don't load in volume so gong slow is fine.
 
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nevadabob said:
Just loaded 20 rounds using the #10 RCBS shell holder. If I pulled the handle down too far I could feel "something happening" to the case. Upon examination the smiley face was about to occur by seeing the beginning of damage to the case mouth. But if I took it easy and pulled up just after the powder drop everything went well. I don't think the RCBS shell holder is any better than the Lee. May try the Lee expander plug with the M step. But If I go slow at an even pace I should be OK for now. I don't load in volume so gong slow is fine.
Click to expand...
That’s a shame. At least you’re putting money into the economy.
 
nevadabob said:
Just loaded 20 rounds using the #10 RCBS shell holder. If I pulled the handle down too far I could feel "something happening" to the case. Upon examination the smiley face was about to occur by seeing the beginning of damage to the case mouth. But if I took it easy and pulled up just after the powder drop everything went well. I don't think the RCBS shell holder is any better than the Lee. May try the Lee expander plug with the M step. But If I go slow at an even pace I should be OK for now. I don't load in volume so gong slow is fine.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the bad call on the shell holder. Long range viewing is not my forte. 😞
Slow and steady sets the pace. But it also “sounds” like (maybe) the die is out of adjustment and needs to be tweaked.
 
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