cslinger
Member
Nice rifle. Love the luxus stocks that cover the breach area. Gold trigger, Beeman???
So I Want An Air Rifle Should I Get A.......Let Me Stop You Right There Just Get An R7/HW30
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jackinil
Member
Yep-R7.
Not bad, but there are two reasons I'm reluctant to agree.
First, it has an excessive and non-adjustable length of pull for smaller shooters (children).
Second, I have concerns about the safety of putting the hand near or over the muzzle, and the hazards of cranking the muzzle around. If I've got a line of nine to twelve children cranking these things, someone's hand is going to be over the muzzle at some point and I don't like the inability to keep the muzzles pointed down-range. With PCP rifles, the muzzles are always down-range, and no person's hand ever needs to go forward of the forestock. PCP is also a lot easier from prone.
If it were to be used by mature shooters away from a firing line, then I see the value of the R7.
First, it has an excessive and non-adjustable length of pull for smaller shooters (children).
Second, I have concerns about the safety of putting the hand near or over the muzzle, and the hazards of cranking the muzzle around. If I've got a line of nine to twelve children cranking these things, someone's hand is going to be over the muzzle at some point and I don't like the inability to keep the muzzles pointed down-range. With PCP rifles, the muzzles are always down-range, and no person's hand ever needs to go forward of the forestock. PCP is also a lot easier from prone.
If it were to be used by mature shooters away from a firing line, then I see the value of the R7.
cslinger
Member
I can see that and if you are dealing with a line of kids you probably have the fill infrastructure to handle PCP charging.
That said a break barrel airgun is a little like a break open shotgun/rifle that by breaking them open you clearly indicate a cleared/un shootable status.
As far as I am concerned putting anything with a trigger in a kids or anybody’s hands for that matter and teaching them safety, responsibility and marksmanship ain’t never a bad thing.
jackinil
Member
Not to mention the R7[and many other models] has an automatic safety.
That's a good point. In spite of the fact that the gun is small and light, the stock is a full length buttstock, not one cut for smaller shooters or children.
It's really not possible to take hold of the barrel forward of the front sight for the compression part of the cocking stroke, so that keeps the hand well behind the muzzle during any legitimate manipulation of the gun while opening the action. During the return stroke, it would be wise to teach shooters to keep their hands behind the muzzle even though the automatic safety should prevent the gun from discharging during that interval.
As far as the muzzle pointing in directions other than downrange when the barrel is broken, once the barrel seal is lost, which happens immediately as soon as the cocking action begins, the gun is safe. Even if the gun were to fire inadvertently, all that would happen would be that the air would rush out of the now open port into free space since the breech is no longer in position.
That said, I wouldn't recommend providing "nine to twelve children" with R7s and trying to supervise them all by one's self. With that many kids, and only 1 adult, I'd want only 1 or 2 rifles for the group, limiting things to only 1 or 2 shooters at a time on the line. Not that anyone has really suggested on this thread that the R7 is the ideal choice for equipping a big class of junior shooters.
Bill_in_TR
Member
Chris (and others) has posted some really good sensible information about acquiring a first air rifle. I have an HW30S myself which I picked up last year from Krale in the Netherlands. The rifle is everything Chris says it is. I got mine because as an older guy with muscle problems cocking my RWS34 for longer shooting sessions was wearing me out. I like that the HW30S gives a full length of pull in a nice, light, easy handling, carbine length gun.
And by all means buy quality pellets to shoot in it. Just like with a .22lr you may have to try several before you find what shoots well in your gun.
I never understood why people want to go cheap on pellets, especially coming from a firearms background. Even more expensive pellets in the $12-$16 range for a tin of 500 are a lot cheaper than an inexpensive brick of 22. And if you shop around you can get quality pellets for less than that.
And by all means buy quality pellets to shoot in it. Just like with a .22lr you may have to try several before you find what shoots well in your gun.
I never understood why people want to go cheap on pellets, especially coming from a firearms background. Even more expensive pellets in the $12-$16 range for a tin of 500 are a lot cheaper than an inexpensive brick of 22. And if you shop around you can get quality pellets for less than that.
Ernie Bass
member
The quality Pellets are quickly being sold out! Over the years I have bought many of the Straight Shooters Pellet Samplars both in 177/-22.cal
Bill_in_TR
Member
I have pretty much identified what shoots well in my air rifles so I usually take advantage of Pyramidair's buy three and get one free offer. I haven't ordered in about a month but I got H&N's fairly quickly then.
cslinger
Member
A little HW30s shooting today. 30 shots, rested on a chair, 55'-58' feet. Mixed bucket o' Crosman Premier hollowpoints. This is my iron sighted gray "lammy" HW30
To reiterate scoping is definitely the way to go for pure accuracy. My eyes have never been good (glasses my whole life/near sighted) and now that I am well into my 4th decade seeing those sights on those small shoot and see's ain't easy. Its fun but not easy.
To reiterate scoping is definitely the way to go for pure accuracy. My eyes have never been good (glasses my whole life/near sighted) and now that I am well into my 4th decade seeing those sights on those small shoot and see's ain't easy. Its fun but not easy.
jackinil
Member
Ever since I got into airguns,Shoot'N" Sees are a must have for my older[67] eyes.
Ernie Bass
member
FYI, you can get a good tuner to "Soft Tune" the 34. Making it shoot like the HW 30 with easy cocking. I have one and just a lovely shooter. Quiet as well.
Cslinger Love that stock! Is it custom?
cslinger
Member
No stock is an AOA exclusive. I really like the laminated stock Weihrauch’s. I this one, a 97 blue and 77 brown/green.
I actually have another 30 on the way, a grey stocked urban pro just to have a scoped version.
I actually have another 30 on the way, a grey stocked urban pro just to have a scoped version.
Ernie Bass
member
Have to say i like it as well. I love a laninated stock any way. Very nice looking HW.
Bill_in_TR
Member
Getting a 34 all the way down to 6 or 7 fpe might be a bit of a stretch. Besides if I want another HW30 I'd just buy one. My 34 already has a Macari kit in it that smoothed it out considerably and tamed it down slightly. But it is still a bear to cock. I like my 34 a lot. It shoots well. But I can shoot my 30 all day long and not get tired. Plus it is light and handy. I am currently testing a custom sort of 34 that cocks almost as lightly as my 30 and still puts out 12 fpe. Just don't know what it might cost to get it done to mine.
Ernie Bass
member
For me, it was not just getting another gun, because I love the 34.By the way a Vortek in my R7 is around 8-9 lbs. cocks just as easy and more quiet that the custom tune I had with a Macari kit. My 34 shoots around 9 lbs, but cocking is about the same as the R7.
Septicdeath
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Cslinger
You are so wrong and bias.
Like most guy that shoot airguns. They all think if it's not English or German its junk.
They are so wrong and uninformed about the subject because most have never owned or had any extended experience with other rifles. I have several other brands that are on par or better shooters than a English or German rifle. And where much less $$$
A wonderful youth rifle that is very accurate and not expensive my choice would be this.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/alpha/
A opinion from a guy that knows nothing but shoots break barrels every day.
You are so wrong and bias.
Like most guy that shoot airguns. They all think if it's not English or German its junk.
They are so wrong and uninformed about the subject because most have never owned or had any extended experience with other rifles. I have several other brands that are on par or better shooters than a English or German rifle. And where much less $$$
A wonderful youth rifle that is very accurate and not expensive my choice would be this.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/alpha/
A opinion from a guy that knows nothing but shoots break barrels every day.
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cslinger
Member
Of what I have experience with.
CZ's are pretty good.
Gamo's in my experience are mostly junk as were the Spanish made Beemans back in the day Mendoza(maybe?) but it could be a QC thing.
Most of the Chinese guns are hit or miss. Some are pretty decent copies of some really good air rifles many are not.
Most of the Benjamin etc. pump guns are are pretty good and versatile.
The Daisy target SSP guns are darn good actually.
I don't have experience with the current Remington/Ruger/etc. guns (I know they are made by others but I have no experience with them)
I don't have experience with current Crosman break barrels but in the past they were kinda junk. Decent C02 stuff though, I just don't care for the report on C02 pistols/rifles in general.
So I do have experience with a wide range of air rifles across the spectrum and I stand by the fact that if you want a TOY then you have a TON of options. If you want a REAL RIFLE then go German, English, Maybe CZ (although they are rougher but shoot great) or the Daisy target grade stuff. (PCP is another world with some really good options but not my bag so I cannot speak to them)
So yes I do have bias's but they are not simply because of names or country of origin. They are from owning, shooting, trying etc. most of them and there is a VAST gulf of quality, feel, trigger, accuracy, shot cycle and craftsmanship between mass market guns and a decent German or English springer.
Heck I have an shoot fairly regularly a Browning Buckmark Air Pistol. It's complete Sh...errr stuff with a HORRIBLE, trigger, HORRIBLE sights but is quiet and really accurate once you deal with the sights and trigger, easy to cock. I mean it sucks but I still enjoy it...........is it remotely in the same league as say a HW40? I'm not even sure its playing the same game much less in the same league. Toy vs. real gun basically. Both fun, one is disposable. Now of course that Buckmark is like $50.00 I think vs. $200ish for the HW40 so I don't expect much but to think there isn't a VAST difference is silly. Yes I know my example is bottom of the barrel vs. well loved middle grade pistol but as a toy goes its one I enjoy shooting.
So all that certainly means folks can have fun shooting all kinds of other things. In some cases they will be fantastic, in others probably not. The point is determine what you want, if you want something that will give you a similar experience to a good firearm pay the money and you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Septicdeath
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Here are my rifles
BLUE STREAK .20 Caliber
Benjamin. Model 132 .22 cal
Crosman DPMS SBR.
Umarex Legends MP40 CO2 BB Submachine Gun
Gamo Swarm Maxxim .22 cal
American Classic Pistol .22 cal
Hatsan SpeedFire .22 cal
Hatsan EDGE Spring .25 cal
Hatsan MOD 125 Vortex .25 cal
Hatsan MOD 125 Vortex .22 cal
Hatsan MOD 130S QE .30 cal
Hatsan Model 130 QE ( modified smooth bore shotgun 7.82 mm choked to 7.75mm )
Hatsan Carnivore .30
Hatsan Torpedo sniper vortex .22
Hatsan Torpedo sniper vortex .25
Hatsan 85 sniper vortex .25 camo
Hatsan Dominator .22
Hatsan 95 .22
Hatsan Torpedo 105X .25
Hatsan 125 sniper vortex camo .25
Xisico XS-25 SFB
Xisico XS-25 hardwood stock
Winchester 425 .22
Browning leverage .22
Duel by Beeman .22 and .177 over under
Norica Spider GRS .22
Mendoza RM 3000
Norica Dragon GRS .22
Diana Panther 31 .22
BLUE STREAK .20 Caliber
Benjamin. Model 132 .22 cal
Crosman DPMS SBR.
Umarex Legends MP40 CO2 BB Submachine Gun
Gamo Swarm Maxxim .22 cal
American Classic Pistol .22 cal
Hatsan SpeedFire .22 cal
Hatsan EDGE Spring .25 cal
Hatsan MOD 125 Vortex .25 cal
Hatsan MOD 125 Vortex .22 cal
Hatsan MOD 130S QE .30 cal
Hatsan Model 130 QE ( modified smooth bore shotgun 7.82 mm choked to 7.75mm )
Hatsan Carnivore .30
Hatsan Torpedo sniper vortex .22
Hatsan Torpedo sniper vortex .25
Hatsan 85 sniper vortex .25 camo
Hatsan Dominator .22
Hatsan 95 .22
Hatsan Torpedo 105X .25
Hatsan 125 sniper vortex camo .25
Xisico XS-25 SFB
Xisico XS-25 hardwood stock
Winchester 425 .22
Browning leverage .22
Duel by Beeman .22 and .177 over under
Norica Spider GRS .22
Mendoza RM 3000
Norica Dragon GRS .22
Diana Panther 31 .22
Septicdeath
Member
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Mendoza 2800
Mendoza 377
Stogar x6000
Xisico XS28
And several I have probably missed in this list.
cslinger
Member
Blue Streaks are kinda awesome.
Hatsans are a perfect example. Some are good, most are very rough, maybe serviceable and some are really crappy.
Mendoza....nothing but bad experiences on my end.
Xisico.....No experience here.
Beeman Dual was BAD in my shooting of it.
Crosman DPMS no experience because I am not a CO2 guy but I hear mostly great things. Most of the Umarex stuff is decent in airguns and the Legends stuff is kinda cool but I only have a passing experience with them as, again...not a CO2 guy.
No experience with current Brownings etc.
Norica....same, I just have had bad experiences with Spanish air rifles. I actually think the Chinese stuff has far better options.
I haven't tried the SIG stuff so I cannot speak to that. The ASP rifle seems like a pretty solid gun but I have never so much as held one.
Over the years I just settled on a demarcation point of what I want in an airgun and in general I get it from German, English, CZ, some Italian (Like my FAS 6004 very much but Chiappa is a QC gamble to be honest) and some oddities here and there. I really like SSP pistols from just about anybody.
I like .177 and .22, tend to not want magnum levels of performance (I have real guns for that) and prefer Spring and SSP. There are a ton of PCPs I wouldn't mind getting into, I just don't want the fill hassle and for what its worth the Disco and Maurauder are great guns so I don't have specific country of origin bias.
Chris
Hatsans are a perfect example. Some are good, most are very rough, maybe serviceable and some are really crappy.
Mendoza....nothing but bad experiences on my end.
Xisico.....No experience here.
Beeman Dual was BAD in my shooting of it.
Crosman DPMS no experience because I am not a CO2 guy but I hear mostly great things. Most of the Umarex stuff is decent in airguns and the Legends stuff is kinda cool but I only have a passing experience with them as, again...not a CO2 guy.
No experience with current Brownings etc.
Norica....same, I just have had bad experiences with Spanish air rifles. I actually think the Chinese stuff has far better options.
I haven't tried the SIG stuff so I cannot speak to that. The ASP rifle seems like a pretty solid gun but I have never so much as held one.
Over the years I just settled on a demarcation point of what I want in an airgun and in general I get it from German, English, CZ, some Italian (Like my FAS 6004 very much but Chiappa is a QC gamble to be honest) and some oddities here and there. I really like SSP pistols from just about anybody.
I like .177 and .22, tend to not want magnum levels of performance (I have real guns for that) and prefer Spring and SSP. There are a ton of PCPs I wouldn't mind getting into, I just don't want the fill hassle and for what its worth the Disco and Maurauder are great guns so I don't have specific country of origin bias.
Chris
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cslinger
Member
Also keep in mind the thread title was a bit tongue in cheek, but yes I am biased as most of us are by our experiences.
cslinger
Member
Also, although I have no experience with and I said I don't need power in my airguns I would like to shoot some of the big bore POWERFUL PCP guns for giggles. I would never buy one but that is something I would like to experience some day.
Clearly, I need to up my air gun game.
cslinger
Member
I have shot airguns most of my life. When I finally got into the mid to higher tier stuff I realized that, frankly I enjoy them more then .22LR from every aspect from quality, trigger, accuracy etc. I cannot bang away like a semi auto .22LR so there will always be that itch from time to time but honestly my airguns scratch 99% of my .22LR itch.
I also just enjoy owning them much like I do firearms. Its another hobby to throw money at, nothing more, nothing less. It does however REALLY pay off during the panics or pandemics
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