So much for sleeping tonight.

[Brian Dale]

Wow. Thank you for posting this, Flea.

 

[Buddy Rabbit]

Flea,
I'm hoping that you can post a scan of the police report, so the rest of us can learn, from the LE perspective, how the police react/respond to this type of CCW engagement. It would be of great educational value to see how the 'first responders' interpret the actions of ALL actors involved. Due to your evident presence of mind in a bad situation, your encounter presents a unique opportunity to educate this community - when seconds count, and mistakes can be fatal.

 

[BikerRN]

1. I honestly can't decide if it would have been better to leave the phone on or not. Having a jury hear "Get on the ground or I'll shoot." might not be good if things went bad.

That's why you say, "Get On The Ground."

I don't advise saying that you will shoot, because if you say it, and then don't shoot you have lost your credibility with the badguy or gal. Keep it short and simple.

2. Open or not open the door? If he would have waited and let the guy with the crow bar bust in the door, he probably would have had to shoot them. In this scenario he didn't have to fire. It would be a tough call given the guy had the means to get in.

IMO it could've gone either way when he opened the door.

For the sake of this discussion, let's say he did go outside and was forced to shoot the badguy. Any first year law student would be able to "paint a picture" that the Original Poster, Flea, was going out looking for a fight and wanting to shoot someone. Generally I'd advise someone to stay inside and not go looking for trouble. Then, if you do have to shoot you are showing that you were trying to avoid that by staying inside and barricading yourself.

Bear in mind, I'm not a lawyer, just a LEO that has been carrying a gun for over twenty years and who's biggest fear is getting shot off duty by responding on duty LEO's. That is why I'm very hesitant to "get involved" off duty beyond calling 911.

BikerRN

 

[Yo2slick]

I think you did the right thing. 2 sorry excuses for a human life were taken off the street because of you. I would say you saved someones life aswell. If it had been another room or if they would have gotten away then it could have been different. Im not saying they wont do something stupid in the future but for now they are in jail where they belong. I say good job and glad to hear you are ok.

 

[Stirling XD]

Flea,
Do you think you were specifically targeted or your room was randomly picked? How long had it been from check-in and move-in to the incident? Just curious. I know next time I check into a motel, I will be scanning the parking lot a little closer.

 

[Kleanbore]

Generally I'd advise someone to stay inside and not go looking for trouble. Then, if you do have to shoot you are showing that you were trying to avoid that by staying inside and barricading yourself.

That's good advice and I'll certainly take it.

First, it addresses the obvious legal risks (was the citizen justified in the use of force; will corroborating witnesses be willing to testify when the time comes; etc.), both criminal and civil. It also mitigates the risk of being ambushed and killed or injured.

I can say from experience that there are few things more unnerving than having someone banging on a hotel room door at night. Flea was lucky to have been armed.

It's not clear what the motivation or objective might have been in going outside, or whether the OP actually thought he would have been justified in firing had the perps ignored his order to get on the ground. I would stay in a safe place and call for help.

 

[DesmoDucRob]

Good job on keeping a cool head. I hope I am never in that situation, and also hope that if put there, I can react as well as you did. I just can't get enough of the "honest citizen coming out on top" stories.

 

[KevinAbbeyTech]

Glad you were "Armed and unharmed"!

 

[rondog]

Here's a good example of this!

Here's a good example of this OP's scenario. Did it happen this way? Nobody knows, and may never know. ALWAYS be prepared in those cheap motel rooms! http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=3877

MOTEL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION
Denver Daily News staff report
Friday, April 10, 2009



MOTEL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION: Lakewood Police said they are investigating the death of a man whose body was found late Tuesday morning in a motel room as a homicide. Around 11 a.m. Tuesday, police were called to the Denver West Inn at 7150 W. Colfax Ave. after the body of a man was found in one of the rooms by the motel’s cleaning personnel. Although there was apparent trauma to the body, detectives felt that additional information and an autopsy were needed to establish the cause and manner of death. As a result of additional information and the autopsy, the case will now be classified as a homicide investigation. The victim has been identified as Wayne Eric Kawcak, 39, of Oklahoma, who had checked into the motel the day before. Anyone with information is asked to call Lakewood Police at 303-987-7111.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Good deal. You didn't fall for the fluff bait. You didn't let 911 listen over your shoulder, either.

I wouldn't have opened the door, though. It not only put you in knife range, it put you in the first-reaction spotlight of some jumpy cops - with a gun in your hand.

That can be bad... .

 

[Blackbeard]

I dunno. It seems a little too perfect. I smell something fishy going on. Nothing goes down that smoothly.

"Large white male in jeans and dark hoodie with a crowbar, short female accomplice blond hair black leather jacket, unknown weapons at the _____ motel on _____ in _______, Kentucky. Send officers, there are going to be shots fired unless they cease their actions."

Come on, you really talk like this when you're stressed? The first thing out of your mouth should be that someone's breaking into your hotel room, not a description of the suspects. The second thing would be your location. They can get the descriptions of the suspects en route.

 

[40S&Wfan]

Something fishy going on? What the heck do you think happened? The intended victim set up the subject outside his door? I don't think so. I think he did an excellent job of maintaining composure and getting all the critical information to LE in an efficient manner. One of the first things I give to a Dispatcher when I call 9-whine-whine is either the address of the 'emergency' or the description of the subject they need to be on the look-out for! After that information, I tell them what's happening and what I'm doing.
Some people are able to maintain their composure a little better than others! It does no good to panic on the phone, the dispatcher can't make sense of what you're saying or what your problem is if you're yelling, screaming and panicking!!

 

[WomenofCaliber]

That is one intense story! I am so glad you are okay! Sounds like one crazy night!