Anthony:
Hi Mas and Friends,
For use in .38 Special snubs (2-inchers) how does the newer Speer 135-grain Gold Dot Hollowpoint (GDHP) developed for the NYPD compare to the old 158-grain LSWCHP +P FBI load?
In particular how does the new Speer load compare to the FBI load in your slaughter house tests for smashing through the thick frontal skull of those exceptionally large hogs you typically use in your testing?
Have you seen any real world shootings with the Speer load yet?
In talking with the Speer staff at the NRA show and looking into other sources it looks like the Speer load duplicates the FBI load for Point of Impact (POI) and penetration depth (in gelatin) while improving on tactical penetration.
Does that about sum it up?
As always, thanks for the help.
- Anthony
flop-shank:
Anthony, FWIW, I tested the .38+P Speer 135 gr. SB load and Corbon 110 gr. DPX by firing them from a 1 7/8" S&W 360PD into four layer denim/Perma-Gel. Speer SB .38+P didn't expand. DPX popped open like a champ. I addition to those two loads, I tested the SB .357 and it also expanded well. IIRC SB .38+P penetrated about 16", DPX around 12", and SB .357 was good for ~ 14". I have not tested the FBI load.
MasAyoob:
Anthony, the 135 grain Gold Dot (short barrel) +P load has been working GREAT for NYPD, the department for whom it was developed by Speer with Ernest Durham leading the engineer team. They have around 35,000 cops on the street, only a couple thousand anymore carrying .38 Special as primary, but a HUGE number of them carrying the .38 snub as backup and as an off duty weapon. They've had a lot of shootings with this load. They are happy with the results.
A big advantage of this load is that with the jacketed bullet and tight crimp to the cannelure, it works in the super-light Scandium and Titanium guns that are now so popular. Because I have both in my carry rotation, I've pretty much switched over to that as my preferred load for snubbies, though I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with it in a 4" gun.
With an all-lead bullet, the case mouth secures much more tenuously to the bullet. When you get the jackhammer recoil that +P delivers with a 3/4 pound .38 revolver, the bullets in adjacent chambers start to come loose and work their way forward, to the point where they "prairie-dog up" and protrude from the face of the cylinder. This, of course, blocks cylinder rotation when the protruding bullet hits the barrel's forcing cone, and effectively locks up the gun. There's no quick fix for it: the gun is dead at that point. This can occur around the third or fourth round.
I've only heard of one case where this happened with an aluminum frame Airweight (didn't see it personally), and have NEVER even HEARD of it happening with an all-steel revolver. I have, however, seen it again and again with Titanium and Scandum frame super-lightweights.
If I was old (well, older) and retired and didn't have to be a role model for anyone and only carried an all-steel or aluminum frame Airweight, I'd be very happy with Remington LSWCHP +P 158 grain .38 Special. Because I sometimes carry a Model 342 in titanium, my belly gun ammo pile has the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P on top.
Don't mean to equivocate...it's just a more complicated question than it sounds like.
Best,
Mas