Kynoch
member
The polymer (some type of Nylon) used in the Nylon 66 isn't the same polymer as the Zytel (?) (another type of Nylon) used in the American.
Some Questions Regarding the Remington 700
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The polymer (some type of Nylon) used in the Nylon 66 isn't the same polymer as the Zytel (?) (another type of Nylon) used in the American.
Kynoch
member
She also pointed the muzzle at her son.
Kynoch
member
I'm not sure that's true. Based on the memo I read, Walker's tolerance study ("statistical analysis") provided a tolerance stack that could theoretically lead to a discharge without pulling the trigger.
I would be very interested to understand what prompted the tolerance study - it might have been a standard part of the design process at Remington back then, and if it was, why was it completed once the design was approved?
If they had run into ADs during testing, I suspect that would have been part of Walker's memos.
MCgunner
Member
Yep, but personal responsibility is not an American tradition. SOMEBODY must pay, who ever has the money.
If 24 lives have been lost, it is tragic, no doubt.
It also goes to how the bullet struck that individual, and what gun handling discipline, or lack of it, was involved.
Do we casually point our firearms at other people and push off the safety? Goes to the point I made.
The public will blame the maker (who has deep pockets for potential financial reward) because they think that the product manufacturer has to do everything possible to prevent their negligence and lack of knowledge.
Because of the ongoing Remington fallout, does the industry now sell rifles with adjustable triggers? Many don't - it's moved to the aftermarket where the owner modified rifle places the burden of liability on the owner and another maker.
If - by the huge number of posts I see on the subject - installing a Timney trigger solves the owners problem, and Remington is actually amenable to paying for that expense, it's because it does all the work for them. Win Win. No longer a liability issue for them in the courts.
And as the market changes we see them consolidating new production in a different facility, which, remarkably, focuses on producing AR15 type rifles. And very few of those come with adjustable triggers as sold.
Suing the deep pockets companies for bad gun handling practices means you get more and more liability designed products. The nice light Remington triggers that were held as the minimum standard in field rifles are not going to continue.
Maybe they weren't all that from the start. Cleaned, in tolerance, and working, if you point the weapon at somebody and manipulate the controls, it's a user safety issue from the beginning. Trusting a mechanism to always work correctly is the major error in thinking. It's frequently caused by always using new products and discarding them as soon as they start needing maintenance and repair. Like, automobiles. It's part of a consumer lifestyle that doesn't accept age, wear, or any sign of being less than perfect.
Track the change in consumer attitudes and you see it parallels the number who piled on with lawsuits over the years. The gun didn't change - the demographic that bought them did. There were far less who understood hardship, personal responsibility, and their role in how to use a firearm properly.
You can't shoot someone flipping off the safety if the weapon is pointed in a safe direction. But, no, only Remington is as fault for that, which is the message that is constantly repeated in these discussions.
As if they make perfect products and you can handle them in any way you choose. That expectation is the major flaw in thinking, and not correcting it will only lead to more deaths.
This is why Audi had to leave the American market. Owners were blaming the company for the gas pedal being depressed and accelerating into obstacles. The average "victim" was a white male, 54, married, with an above average income, management level. Corporate suit.
No possible way he could have made a mistake, eh?
Frankly, I still think American makers funneled money into the suit. And I would not be surprised the anti gunners have here too. It's their demographic and they can make a gunmaker hurt. Win Win for them
It also goes to how the bullet struck that individual, and what gun handling discipline, or lack of it, was involved.
Do we casually point our firearms at other people and push off the safety? Goes to the point I made.
The public will blame the maker (who has deep pockets for potential financial reward) because they think that the product manufacturer has to do everything possible to prevent their negligence and lack of knowledge.
Because of the ongoing Remington fallout, does the industry now sell rifles with adjustable triggers? Many don't - it's moved to the aftermarket where the owner modified rifle places the burden of liability on the owner and another maker.
If - by the huge number of posts I see on the subject - installing a Timney trigger solves the owners problem, and Remington is actually amenable to paying for that expense, it's because it does all the work for them. Win Win. No longer a liability issue for them in the courts.
And as the market changes we see them consolidating new production in a different facility, which, remarkably, focuses on producing AR15 type rifles. And very few of those come with adjustable triggers as sold.
Suing the deep pockets companies for bad gun handling practices means you get more and more liability designed products. The nice light Remington triggers that were held as the minimum standard in field rifles are not going to continue.
Maybe they weren't all that from the start. Cleaned, in tolerance, and working, if you point the weapon at somebody and manipulate the controls, it's a user safety issue from the beginning. Trusting a mechanism to always work correctly is the major error in thinking. It's frequently caused by always using new products and discarding them as soon as they start needing maintenance and repair. Like, automobiles. It's part of a consumer lifestyle that doesn't accept age, wear, or any sign of being less than perfect.
Track the change in consumer attitudes and you see it parallels the number who piled on with lawsuits over the years. The gun didn't change - the demographic that bought them did. There were far less who understood hardship, personal responsibility, and their role in how to use a firearm properly.
You can't shoot someone flipping off the safety if the weapon is pointed in a safe direction. But, no, only Remington is as fault for that, which is the message that is constantly repeated in these discussions.
As if they make perfect products and you can handle them in any way you choose. That expectation is the major flaw in thinking, and not correcting it will only lead to more deaths.
This is why Audi had to leave the American market. Owners were blaming the company for the gas pedal being depressed and accelerating into obstacles. The average "victim" was a white male, 54, married, with an above average income, management level. Corporate suit.
No possible way he could have made a mistake, eh?
Frankly, I still think American makers funneled money into the suit. And I would not be surprised the anti gunners have here too. It's their demographic and they can make a gunmaker hurt. Win Win for them
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
stiab
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2007
- Messages
- 638
That's not what's happening, they are being sued for producing a gun that can fire when it shouldn't.
I went to an older tread (2010) on the S&W forum and took a few minutes to copy and paste some actual examples. Each of these is from a different person, and not gun haters or the liberal media...
"seen it firsthand. hunting, darkthirty am, get out of truck I load the winchester 70 which will open bolt on safety, brother puts round in remington 3006 and closes the bolt, kboom. fortunately he had it resting on his crotch pointed up or I might not be here today. factory trigger. it was the old rem which wouldnt open or close on safe."
"That all being said, has my M700 EVER gone off when I carefully wiped off the safety in a proper manner? Only ONCE . . . in 1996. Yes, it happened as I stood next to my truck, working the bolt to unload the rifle after spending a morning in a deer stand. "
"I bought my first rifle, a Remington 700 ADL in .30-06, in October, 1974. I wanted to deer hunt with friends. The clerk at K-Mart, where I bought it, is a good friend of mine, picked out a perfect one, told me that he had bore-sighted the scope when he mounted it, so it was already "sighted in." I didn't get to shoot it before the opening morning of the hunt. I had studied the owners manual and dry fired it a few times before the hunt. As were were heading off from the camper, I loaded the magazine and closed the bolt, chambering a round. As the bolt locked up, the rifle went off. My right hand was on the bolt handle, my left holding the rifle by the forearm, nothing at all near the trigger. "
"This gun suffered one unintended discharge in the mid-1980's. I had loaded it in the field and it went off upon closing the bolt. The trigger was not touched, no one was injured but a 275 grain Barnes bullet traveling 2800 fps leaves quite a mark on the ground."
"I have owned this model 700 since 1979. Carried it in all kinds of weather, conditions and it is the most accurate rifle in my arsenal. Will consistently shoot 1/2 MOA all day long with hand loads. On Saturday evening, when I started to break stand, I was going to unload the rifle, as I usually do before climbing down. When I pushed off the safety, the gun discharged. My fingers were no where near the trigger, as I was/have been cognizant of the alleged issues with the rifle discharging without the trigger being pulled. "
"A few years I ago. I made the mistake of buying Remington bolt action 223 at Bass Pro. I can not remember the model number but it was not a 700. I did not have it long enough to even enter it in my record books or take a picture of it. I believe it was made in Turkey. It was on sale and had a rebate so I figured hey a cheapo Remington to target shoot. I cleaned it and went to the range. I shot a few rounds and then reloaded. I went to push the bolt forward to load a round and it went off! Scared me to death, thank God it was pointing down range."
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1st off, I am sitting in a deer blind with a mid sixties Remington 760 as I type this waiting for the light. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
2nd, I think the complaints about Remington are somewhat exaggerated and a result of attempts to cheapen the ADL. My brother in law is sitting in a stand about 500 yards away with a 5 or 6 year old CDL in 300 WSM and it is a really nice rifle. Another relative is on the other side of the property with a LH BDL in 300 RUM that is also a nice production rifle. I almost bought a NOS CDL in 300 Savage about a month ago for around $600. Also a nice e rifle. Only reason I didn't buy it is I am a lefty and have promised myself a LH rifle.
That all being said, I acquired thru family a used ADL in 243 that's probably 10 years old, and it, well, it sucks. It jams up with more than two cartridges loaded, has a crappy stock and an even crappier finish. It is, however, very accurate.
The higher end Remingtons, and Winchester 70s, are still nice rifles.
2nd, I think the complaints about Remington are somewhat exaggerated and a result of attempts to cheapen the ADL. My brother in law is sitting in a stand about 500 yards away with a 5 or 6 year old CDL in 300 WSM and it is a really nice rifle. Another relative is on the other side of the property with a LH BDL in 300 RUM that is also a nice production rifle. I almost bought a NOS CDL in 300 Savage about a month ago for around $600. Also a nice e rifle. Only reason I didn't buy it is I am a lefty and have promised myself a LH rifle.
That all being said, I acquired thru family a used ADL in 243 that's probably 10 years old, and it, well, it sucks. It jams up with more than two cartridges loaded, has a crappy stock and an even crappier finish. It is, however, very accurate.
The higher end Remingtons, and Winchester 70s, are still nice rifles.
This is not going anywhere every other Remington trigger thread has not already gone. Not really see I g why this one needs to stay open.
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