Soon to be obsolete rounds?

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Monac said:
Why do say this, Jack Ryan? I am not a fan of 25 ACP, but there wasn't any other viable choice for a mini-auto back in 1905 or whenever Browning designed it. IMO, it's better than 32 S&W (but not 32 S&W Long), which a lot people were using for self-defence at the time. "Obsolete" is not the word that comes to my mind for it until about 1990 or so. "Ineffective"? Sure, I'll give you that, but it was a good choice for a class of pistol that people found useful then.
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An "ineffective" pistol is NEVER A GOOD CHOICE.

You described it even better than I did, ineffective, not a fan, no viable choice. At least you did when you weren't contradicting your self.

The 25acp should have been aborted before it left the "comes to mind" stage.
 
Right now, you’re almost more likely to find an obsolete caliber in stock than you are to find 38 Special. Something like 16 gauge gets overlooked because not as many people are relying on them. Might be more likely to find a couple boxes of .25 ACP than you are to find .380 in the wild.

New technology developments and millions of new gun owners also make declarations about what’s “obsolete” unreliable. They’ve been calling revolvers obsolete for sixty years - Ruger, S&W, and Taurus keep coming out with new angles and selling more every year.
 
Jack Ryan said:
An "ineffective" pistol is NEVER A GOOD CHOICE.

You described it even better than I did, ineffective, not a fan, no viable choice. At least you did when you weren't contradicting your self.

The 25acp should have been aborted before it left the "comes to mind" stage.
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Thanks! Could you let me know where I contradicted myself? I want to avoid that. Do you mean when I said 25 ACP was a good choice for a class of pistol people found useful? Because what I meant was that 25 ACP was a better choice than anything else available for a vest pocket automatic. I don't think 22 rimfire rounds are good for that; in my opinion, they don't feed as well as 25 ACP and don't ignite as reliably. And I don't think 22 hollow points expand in flesh when fired from a two-inch barrel, but I'm less certain of that.

Now we have almost-vest pocket-size pistols in 32 ACP and even 380, so I can see it would be fair to consider 25 ACP obsolete.

I guess this is thread drift, so if a moderator wants to delete this, I will understand.
 
I've reached the point where whenever someone says .40 is going to be obsolete my brain shuts off because they're speaking from the heart and not the head. Too many .40 guns out there, still police depts (rural ones) that use .40, and the ammo isn't as expensive in normal times. At some point there will reach a point with existing .40 caliber guns where the price will be so low people won't turn it down simply because it's .40.

Everyone craps on the .32's solely because they can't or won't accept paying the same price for it as they do .380 or .38/.357. The bottom line with .32 is you aren't buying it to save money on ammo, you buy it for the reduced recoil, maybe the higher capacity in applicable guns. A major benefit to .32 is people who don't shoot much or can't shoot much can pick up a .32 and with limited practice be effective with it. By far the biggest reason .32 is not going to become obsolete is simple: women. Women like the .32, most women shoot .32 better than they do larger calibers and .32 is better than .22 or .25.

As for the .25, I don't know what the future of that caliber holds. I'd say so long as companies like Phoenix, Jimenez, etc. can keep pumping them out for under $150, people not of means are going to buy them and stick them in their sock drawer. They've been doing it for 50 years, they'll continue to do it another 50 years and until they can make a 9mm the size of a .25 with the recoil of a .25, the .25's will likely always be around.

Finally I can get to the part where I agree with the video: .45 Gap and .41 Magnum. The major reason I could see these becoming obsolete is IDK who is going to continue to make ammunition for them when the demand is as low as it is. At least with .25 and .32 you have a lot of guns out there in those calibers, but .45 GAP and .41 Mag are nowhere near those amounts and there is no major reason for the average gun owner to choose the .45 GAP over .45 ACP or the .41 Mag over .357 or .44 Magnum.

As to those not on the list, I have a hard time seeing 5.7x28 continuing to meander on when the cost of the ammo is so high and reloading it is so difficult. The telling sign of its demise will be if Ruger and Kel Tec stop making their 5.7 pistols.
 
goon said:
I think 41 magnum would be great in a 5 shot GP-100, but nobody listens to me.
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I'll bite.

"Hi, my name is Joe Schmoe, I mostly shoot 9mm from my *insert common budget not a Hi Point pistol here* and am looking to buy my first revolver in I guess a magnum caliber because I hear they're pretty powerful and reliable. I'm a working man with a wife, kids, and bills, so I can't exactly spend top dollar. I know there's a .357, .41, and a .44 Magnum. What would you recommend?"

This is the target audience for every revolver manufacturer and why so few of them make .41 Magnums because they know once Joe Schmoe sees the price of the .41 ammo he's going to go into a mild state of shock and say that he can't do that.
 
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Monac said:
Why do say this, Jack Ryan? I am not a fan of 25 ACP, but there wasn't any other viable choice for a mini-auto back in 1905 or whenever Browning designed it. IMO, it's better than 32 S&W (but not 32 S&W Long), which a lot people were using for self-defence at the time. "Obsolete" is not the word that comes to my mind for it until about 1990 or so. "Ineffective"? Sure, I'll give you that, but it was a good choice for a class of pistol that people found useful then.
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What makes you say .25 is better than .32 S&W? Is it the capacity or the allegedly faster reloads? Or is it the Lucky Gunner review on .32 caliber pocket pistols that shot a .32 S&W from a .327 chambered revolver which due to the long jump sapped velocity from the bullet causing it to not penetrate as deeply as it could have if fired from a proper .32 S&W chambered revolver?
 
goon said:
Right now, you’re almost more likely to find an obsolete caliber in stock than you are to find 38 Special. Something like 16 gauge gets overlooked because not as many people are relying on them. Might be more likely to find a couple boxes of .25 ACP than you are to find .380 in the wild.

New technology developments and millions of new gun owners also make declarations about what’s “obsolete” unreliable. They’ve been calling revolvers obsolete for sixty years - Ruger, S&W, and Taurus keep coming out with new angles and selling more every year.
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I can go to any lgs and find ammo in stock, but what prevents me from buying it is the price. If the owner refuses to sell .22 for less than $12 for a 50 rd box, fine, I won't buy it and I'll hop onto CCI's website and buy it for $5 a box and get the free shipping. I don't want to hear the excuse of "that FFL doesn't know what the price will be next time he orders, he's gotta protect hisself!" because that's not my problem that his way of doing business is so antiquated that he has to sell ammo at a ridiculous price compared to what I can buy elsewhere direct from the manufacturer.

The only benefit of the LGS is they have something you can buy that day, but I do this thing called preparing for times when the ammo isn't available or extremely expensive so I'm never in need of ammo to the point I have to overpay to get it same day, I can wait a few weeks to get it. Having a reserve of ammo really helps for times like these, so all those who made snide comments about how when I buy carry ammo I choose the cheap Winchester stuff over HST because it costs less and I like to stockpile it that I'm a fool.
 
TTv2 said:
I can go to any lgs and find ammo in stock, but what prevents me from buying it is the price. If the owner refuses to sell .22 for less than $12 for a 50 rd box, fine, I won't buy it and I'll hop onto CCI's website and buy it for $5 a box and get the free shipping. I don't want to hear the excuse of "that FFL doesn't know what the price will be next time he orders, he's gotta protect hisself!" because that's not my problem that his way of doing business is so antiquated that he has to sell ammo at a ridiculous price compared to what I can buy elsewhere direct from the manufacturer.

The only benefit of the LGS is they have something you can buy that day, but I do this thing called preparing for times when the ammo isn't available or extremely expensive so I'm never in need of ammo to the point I have to overpay to get it same day, I can wait a few weeks to get it. Having a reserve of ammo really helps for times like these, so all those who made snide comments about how when I buy carry ammo I choose the cheap Winchester stuff over HST because it costs less and I like to stockpile it that I'm a fool.
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As an FFL its nice to know you think so highly of us. I have a batch of 9mm on my shelf retailing for .49 cents per round that I paid, from the factory, .44 cents a round. Us little guys don't have the liquidity to invest in oodles of ammo to crate up in back in case the supply lines turn sour, and even if we did this nonsense has been going for over two years now. If my whole store started out packed floor to ceiling with ammo in 2019 it would have been a drop in the bucket. I pay what it takes to get the ammo I need for my customers, and they pay that amount plus 20%.
>because that's not my problem
When there's nothing left in this country but big box stores and their "better business models" you're going to have a hard time buying any guns that the big, monied, and politically sensitive Walmarts of the world don't feel like letting you transfer. I'd enjoy charging you $200 for a transfer fee though. "Gotta keep the doors open."
 
I, for one, don't see the 40S&W, 32ACP, or 25ACP going anywhere. Not a fan of any of them, per se', but they have a large amount of users, in the market. 32 and 25 have many concealed carry supporters, and in the time 40S&W was supported by the FBI, it became very common.
 
I remember reading articles that list the top 10 rifle cartridges for a given year. This was based on ammunition and rifle sales from the manufacturers data. They would also list cartridges that were no longer going to be offered by manufacturers.

Ammo sales is the driver.
 
The old calibers are some of the best. The only new ones i shoot are the.22 tcm,9 mm, .357 mag,the 7.62+39 and the .44 mag. The.22 lr, .22 tcm and the 9 mm are mostly good for target work and the other for more serious work.
My older calibers are:
.22 lr
.32 sw .32 hr
.32-20
.38 special
.38-40
.41 mag
.44 special
.44-40
.45 colt .45 acp
.22 hornet
.30-30
.45-70
I don't believe anyone can find fault with any of these. As you can see i shoot a lot of revolvers. The auto just does appeal to me that much.
 
Speer Lawman 45 GAP Ammo 200 Grain TMJ (targetsportsusa.com) 99,000+ rounds in stock
Speer Gold Dot LE 45 GAP Ammo 200 Gr Gold Dot HP (targetsportsusa.com)12,000 rounds in stock

Luckygunner recently had thousands of rounds of the 45 GAP also. It slowly but surely sold out like TargetSportsUSA will.

It's crazy how when we have shortages that drive prices 2 to 5 times normal, Speer made so much of a useless obsolete cartridge. Obviously this is a drop in the bucket compared to the 9mm they make but why waste primers on the 45GAP? My guess is they have a deal with Glock to make so many rounds per year. As long as that deal remains the cartridge will hang on. (by this one thread)
 
Almost laughable that he says the 40s&w will soon be a thing of the past considering there are literally hundreds of thousands of guns out there and still a very common carry round. 41 is about the same popularity as it was 40 years ago just a small following but those guns aren't going anywhere. About the same for the 32 and 25acp if they were going to be obsolete they would have been so 50 years ago. All and all a joke of a video.
 
Cowhide Cliff said:
Almost laughable that he says the 40s&w will soon be a thing of the past considering there are literally hundreds of thousands of guns out there and still a very common carry round. 41 is about the same popularity as it was 40 years ago just a small following but those guns aren't going anywhere. About the same for the 32 and 25acp if they were going to be obsolete they would have been so 50 years ago. All and all a joke of a video.
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Obsolete doesn't necessarily mean extinct. We can believe what we choose to believe but that's just us. As for me, most of those rounds I never heard of so I have no opinion one way or another as my overall base of information is limited. Here's what the NRA has to say about the .40 S&W, basically the same thing said in the video.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/is-the-40-s-w-dead/

Does this mean the .40 S&W will disappear completely? Not necessarily. I remember there were those claiming the 10mm would become extinct yet there has been a resurgence in 10mm interest. Ya never know.
 
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.308 Norma said:
It seems to me the 41 Magnum has been becoming "obsolete" ever since it was invented. I mean, even that guy that did the did the video sort of claimed that when the 41 Magnum was invented, people were scratching their heads and saying, "what for?"o_O
I don't much care one way or the other. I have a 41 Magnum, I like it, and I wish more gun manufacturers would build more guns chambered for the 41 Magnum. But in the end, I also have a L-Frame 44 Magnum (a Smith Model 69) that I would choose over a 41 Magnum in the same gun.
So I guess I'm one of those rotten guys that are helping the 41 Magnum become "obsolete." Don't worry all you 41 Magnum fans though - I predict the 41 Magnum will still be around after I'm gone, and there will still be people claiming it's becoming "obsolete.";)
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Yeah I hear you. I have a scoped 8 3/8" Mod 57 .41 that I used to deer hunt with when I lived in a "handgun or shotgun only" state. Shoots well, whacked a couple of nice deer with it, I have ammo for it. But I never shoot it anymore. Don't deer hunt, and I have too many others that I LIKE to shoot....
 
kje54 said:
Obsolete doesn't necessarily mean extinct. We can believe what we choose to believe but that's just us. As for me, most of those rounds I never heard of so I have no opinion one way or another as my overall base of information is limited. Here's what the NRA has to say about the .40 S&W, basically the same thing said in the video.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/is-the-40-s-w-dead/

Does this mean the .40 S&W will disappear completely? Not necessarily. I remember there were those claiming the 10mm would become extinct yet there has been a resurgence in 10mm interest. Ya never know.
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No what that article says is law enforcement agencies say it's obsolete to them because they are too sissy to shoot it. I don't know anyone that carries a 40 giving it up for a 9mm. Not one single person. With law enforcement agencies dropping it there are the copycats and there are certainly less guns being sold in comparison but I predict almost everyone that now is using 40s&w will continue to do so. The decline has already happened, been happening for the past recent years. Same with the 41 mag and in regards to the 32 and 25, they are far more plentiful than they were 50 years ago. It would take a huge decline in those just to get back to where they used to be in popularity.

It's popularity trends but not even close to be considered obsolete. Once one gets the popularity the 40 has had it's never going to be in the next 50 years in a category you can classify as obsolete.

The very definition of obsolete is outdated and no longer in use, it will certainly continue to be in use just doesn't have the following it had 10 years ago but will still have factory ammo produced. What is generally referred to as obsolete cartridges are those that were once popular but now have very little to no factory ammo produced and no one uses it anymore. They really flubbed including 40 in the list and in no way is it even close to being in the same shortlist as 45GAP, 327, 357sig, etc. It's just been too popular and there are too many millions of modern guns chambered for it.
 
Cowhide Cliff said:
No what that article says is law enforcement agencies say it's obsolete to them because they are too sissy to shoot it. I don't know anyone that carries a 40 giving it up for a 9mm. Not one single person. With law enforcement agencies dropping it there are the copycats and there are certainly less guns being sold in comparison but I predict almost everyone that now is using 40s&w will continue to do so. The decline has already happened, been happening for the past recent years. Same with the 41 mag and in regards to the 32 and 25, they are far more plentiful than they were 50 years ago. It would take a huge decline in those just to get back to where they used to be in popularity.

It's popularity trends but not even close to be considered obsolete. Once one gets the popularity the 40 has had it's never going to be in the next 50 years in a category you can classify as obsolete.

The very definition of obsolete is outdated and no longer in use, it will certainly continue to be in use just doesn't have the following it had 10 years ago but will still have factory ammo produced. What is generally referred to as obsolete cartridges are those that were once popular but now have very little to no factory ammo produced and no one uses it anymore. They really flubbed including 40 in the list and in no way is it even close to being in the same shortlist as 45GAP, 327, 357sig, etc. It's just been too popular and there are too many millions of modern guns chambered for it.
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Maybe you might want to look up the definition again, it doesn't just mean no longer in use. See the second application which loosely translates to not in common use. Nobody said it was extinct.
 
TTv2 said:
What makes you say .25 is better than .32 S&W? Is it the capacity or the allegedly faster reloads? Or is it the Lucky Gunner review on .32 caliber pocket pistols that shot a .32 S&W from a .327 chambered revolver which due to the long jump sapped velocity from the bullet causing it to not penetrate as deeply as it could have if fired from a proper .32 S&W chambered revolver?
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I am not going to get into this; I have already caused too much thread drift. If you feel 32 S&W is equal or superior to 25 ACP, I will not argue with you. I have opinions on this subject, but no facts, and on that basis, your opinion is equal or superior to mine.
 
Monac said:
I am not going to get into this; I have already caused too much thread drift. If you feel 32 S&W is equal or superior to 25 ACP, I will not argue with you. I have opinions on this subject, but no facts, and on that basis, your opinion is equal or superior to mine.
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At the very least I'd still like to hear your opinions. Mine is largely coming from what I've seen in tests with the .25 and I cannot say it's better than anything except .22 Short and is at least more reliable than all .22 rimfires.
 
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