spire-point 30-30 ammo?

[roscoe]

I understand that one of the reasons the 30-30 performs so poorly over 200 yards is the fact that the ammo is blunt (flat or round-nosed) to avoid problems accidentally setting off adjacent rounds in the tubular magazine. Yet, I have also heard of hunters who use a single spire-point round (or two - one in the chamber and one in the magazine).

My question is - are these commercially available, or are all the 30-30 rounds blunt to avoid liability? You would think that hunters with single-shot 30-30 pistols would be all over these things. I have been unable to find them on the internet, so far.

Thanks!

 

[cratz2]

Well, most shots that actually kill big game (deer and up) and allow it to be found in the United States are probably well under 200 yards. No doubt quite a bit of game gets wounded past 200 yards and there are plenty of excellent rifle shooters out there but most game isn't taken at 400 yards. The 30-30 is fine out to 200 yards and I think most lovers of the 30-30 realize this. The only problem I can think of with having spitzer bullets in a lever 30-30 gun would be the possibilty of forgetting that they were there and mixing them up with round point ammo. And if you were to have, say 2 rounds of 150 Gr spitzer ammo and the rest of 150 Gr round nose ammo, they would more than likely have a dramatically different points of impact and many folks will swear up and down that a round nose bullet will cut through brush more effectively than a spitzer though I'm not sure how much I believe that.

Not to rain on your parade, but there are just too many things going against the use of spitzer bullets in a lever gun.

 

[dodge]

One of the reasons that 30-30 ammo has the blunt nose is that if you put more than one in the magazine there is the possibilty of a chain reaction from the recoil upon firing. The spire pointed rounds in the magazine has the point of shell resting on the primer of the one in front of it. Yes the blunt nose does not lends itself to longer range shooting but most people when using the 30-30 hunt where it's in it's glory in the woods where most of your shots are under 100 yds. so the blunt nose isn't a liability. I have read where people will use a spire pointed round but only use two rounds one in the chamber and one in the magazine without any problem. For myself I'll just stick with the blunt pointed round and not worry about forgetting that I may already have a round in the magazine and put another one in leading to a possible chain reaction.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a bolt action .30-30 and I have loaded spitzer bullets for it. They shoot well and since I do not have a tube mag .30-30 it simplifies my component supply, just load the same bullets in .30-30 and .30-06.

But I no longer consider them a big advantage otherwise. Flat points are just as accurate and the trajectory of the .30-30 is high enough that once you get past - or even up to - 200 yards, you have to know the range and hold or adjust for it with any bullet. You just can't get a long point blank range for the .30-30.

 

[El Tejon]

I do the inverse. A 170 grain flatpoint on a .308 is great for deer-sized critters.

 

[Wil Terry]

GO RE-READ MIKE VENTURINO'S ARTICLE ON RN VS SPITZER BULLETS.

With the Sierra 200gr matchking vs the Sierra 200gr roundnose at the same velocities from a 30/06 rifle the drop at 300 yards was identical.
It is virtually the same with the 30/30 at 200 yards.
And besides all that the the RN or FP bullet design is a better killer to boot.

 

[Chainsaw]

roscoe, To answer your question, there are no commercially loaded 30-30 Win spire points that I'm aware of.

I load my own using Barnes 130 and 140 X spire point boatails. I use these in NEF/H&R's single shots that I own.
Good velocity is acheivable, as well as groups consistenetly under 1 inch.

For the lever gun Speer makes a 130 grain flat point that I've loaded and these do smack whitetail deer hard and keep them down. Extra velocity can be loaded into these with a lever rifle of new manufacture from Win. or Marlin. Paco Kelly wrote an article towards this end a sixgunner.com and it will explain how he arrived at this loadings in the article.

 

[roscoe]

Chainsaw,

Yeah, I read about a handloader who used spire points in his single-shot pistol and he got an additional 300-400 fps at the muzzle and considerable less drop at distance. I can't seem to access the site online right now, but I do know that Chuck Hawk lists a difference of over 5" between round nose and spitzer point .243 at 300 yards, and I think it is quite a bit more for the 30-30.

It is sort of too bad that the people are afraid to sell commercial ammo that would take advantage of the newer, stronger steel in more recent vintage rifles. I guess you have to factor in the lowest common denominator when you sell to the public.

This is not so much a hunting issue per se, since I also think that the best shot is a close shot, and the rifle has iron sights anyway. I am more interested in just seeing what the actual potential of the rifle is, but I am definitely not trying to turn this thing into a .308.

 

[cratz2]

I haven't read the article being referenced but I don't understand how handloads with a pointed bullet could get 400 fps faster at the muzzle than handloads with a round nose without either having significantly higher pressure or a lighter bullet.

Or does the article say he got higher velocities with handloads than with factory loaded ammo that is safe for 100 year old guns?

 

[telewinz]

To address this problem, years ago I purchased a Remington 788 in 30/30. I load 170 lead bullets, and 150 brain spire points. Its the easiest rifle cartridge to reload and their is even special data for using bolt actions. Since 30/30 brass is not very strong, some people have take the .375 Winchester brass and necked it down to 30/30 size and approach 30/40 Krag energy. The old 788's can still be found at gun shows for $400 up, their quick lock time makes them an excellent lite target/hunting rifle. My 788 is the most flexible bolt-action rilfe I own thants to the 30/30 and reloading. Very pleasant to shoot, accurate for target out to 200 yards with LEAD bullets.

 

[roscoe]

cratz2,

Yes, you are correct about the loading. He used 110 grain spire-point bullet to get the higher muzzle velocity. But it was the drop that caught my eye, and that was attributed to the drag coefficient of the spire points.

 

[Chainsaw]

cratz, Plain and simple he was using 110 and 130 grain bullets and loading the cases full of BLC-2.

I have done the same with the 130 and 140 X and have had results that are hard to believe with no high pressure signs until I got to 2700 fps. I did run out of case capacity at that point. I now drive the 140 around 2600 fps and the 130 a little faster. I don't know if the lever is condusive to getting that velocity, but Kelly was written that he has done it.

I am going to play with the 110 Spire point just to see what I can drive it up to safely.----------Chainsaw

 

[inGobwetrust]

Cor-Bon makes some.

http://www.cor-bon.com/single_shot_hunter.html

 

[roscoe]

Chainsaw, let us know what your result is. Those CorBon rounds look interesting. They are designed for a pistol, and I wonder what the performance is like out of a rifle. I presume the data they give is from a pistol barrel; otherwise the performance is not that impressive.

 

[DAL]

DISCLAIMER: I am not going to vouch for the information that follows, but I will pass it on. You'll have to determine its validity, or lack thereof.

Recently, I don't remember where or when it was written, I read an article that talked about this subject. It said that even loading spire points in .30-30 cases wouldn't help the round become a real zapper. Why? Because .30-30 velocities are too low for most of the sprire point bullets to perform the way they are intended at, say, .30-06
velocities.

BTW, I am not bashing the .30-30 round. My dad has one I shoot often and I like its mild manners.
In the hands of a skilled, reasonable individual, a lot can be done with it.
DAL

P.S. roscoe, I've looked, and I've never seen any comercially-loaded .30-30 ammo with a spire point.

 

[cratz2]

Has anyone actually used the 110 Gr pointed bullets on game?

 

[Okiecruffler]

Not too long ago I read an article where someone with more time than sense rigged a contraption to mimic what would happen if a spire point round was to discharge inside a tubular magizine. What he got everytime was only one discharged round, alot of soot and unburned powder. I think it was in American Rifleman, but I've just spent the last 30 minutes looking for it and can't locate it. Regardless, I say leave well enough alone. That round nosed 30-30 has been dropping game for an awfully long time, and I'm betting it will still be around after all these ultra-mags loose their novelty.

 

[Joe Demko]

I've loaded spire-point .30-30's since the late 1970's for a Contender pistol. I've played around with different bullets and powders over the years and it is easily possible to construct loads for the pistol that outperform RN factory loads. You aren't going to turn the .30-30 into a .300 WSM by any means, but shooting is a game of increments after all.
If you wanted to track one down, there are Savage 99's out there in .30-30. You would then have a .30-30 lever action that safely uses pointy bullets. The 99 is the greatest rifle EVER, so it is worth getting one anyway.