State authorities asking gun owners to allow guns to be test fired.

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It's getting better!!!!!!!!!!

A guy from Stillwater, OK, posted the following:

One of my employees just told me that on the news last night the OSBI were also asking people to report anyone they knew in the area that had unregistered guns in that caliber.
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This is getting weird.
 
One of my employees just told me that on the news last night the OSBI were also asking people to report anyone they knew in the area that had unregistered guns in that caliber.
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Weird indeed, since in OK, there is NO SUCH THING as an unregistered gun, or a registered gun.
 
This is absolutely scarey. Yeah the reason is because someone may have "LOANED" their gun to the murderer, sure that's what the letter said.

When reading that letter, it did not sound volentary to me.
 
This is the second time in recent memory, and perhaps the 5th or 6th time I've heard of this sort of nonsense being done.

In every case, it's a sign of cluelessness and desparation on the part of the authorities. ("Do something! Do Anything!). In no case did it ever contribute to the solution of the crime.

Personally, I find the matter to be offensive.

The last time it came up, I pointed out other analogies that most people would find offensive (Such as requiring all males of a certain shoe size to bring in all their shoes to see if they match footprints found near the site of a rape), and yet gun owners are simply expected to suck it up.

Hell no.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Go get a warrant, because if you can't get pass the normally pretty low bar of convincing a judge that you've go good reason to suspect that I've committed a crime, you're wasting everyone's time.
 
This is just the ones they do know about.
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And they know this how? And were any laws violated in obtaining that information?

If so any evidence they found from these "volunteer" searches would be inadmissible anyway.

That's the real question here, how did they get this info?
 
The last time it came up, I pointed out other analogies that most people would find offensive (Such as requiring all males of a certain shoe size to bring in all their shoes to see if they match footprints found near the site of a rape), and yet gun owners are simply expected to suck it up.
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Perhaps more troubling is the fact that there are people out there who would have no problem with that whatsoever, and their consent, whether direct or tacit, is what has emboldened the state to show this ever increasing disregard for the constraints on their power.
 
"The reason for the letter requesting people to bring in their gun was that the owner may have loaned it to someone who used it in the murders."
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What POSSIBLE evidence could there be to indicate that the gun used was loaned?

Aren't LEO required to conduct investigations based on the facts?

What if based on no evidence they said:
"The killer may be African-American" or
"The killer may be a Muslim" or
"The killer may be a communist".

Now if there is EVIDENCE to support that is one thing. To just make a statement based on no facts is wrong.
 
Aren't LEO required to conduct investigations based on the facts?

What if based on no evidence they said:
"The killer may be African-American" or
"The killer may be a Muslim" or
"The killer may be a communist".
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They'd never do that. Who's rights is it okay to trample? Correct!
 
(quote)
One of my employees just told me that on the news last night the OSBI were also asking people to report anyone they knew in the area that had unregistered guns in that caliber.
(\quote)
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit... When did the KGB take over this investigation?
 
How they got the info:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080820_12_A1_hOSBIa443762


Tom Harris, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Tulsa, confirmed that.

According to Harris, most states, including Oklahoma, and the federal government do not have lists of registered gun owners.

He said the only way to get a listing of gun owners is by canvassing gun dealers or pawnshops individually to find out who bought weapons — as the OSBI did.

Harris said gun dealers — "federal firearms licensees" — have to fill out ATF form 4473 whenever a weapon is purchased. The form lists the buyer, the address and other pertinent information.
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I think if I was a gun owner/buyer in OK, I'd be very interested in which gunshops opened their books, and what tactic was used by Law Enforcement to get into them.
 
Looks like OSBI got enough heat about theri mis-staements about gun registries that they backed up a little

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080820_12_A1_hOSBIa443762

Gun owners got letters

By MANNY GAMALLO World Staff Writer
8/20/2008
Last Modified: 8/20/2008 2:20 AM


OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.

WELEETKA — Authorities working to narrow their leads in the June 8 shooting deaths of two girls used old-fashioned legwork to come up with a list of area gun owners with .40-caliber pistols, one of two weapons used in the slayings.

Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.

"It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI.

That time-consuming procedure yielded the OSBI the names of more than 60 owners of .40-caliber guns in the Weleetka area.

Consequently, the OSBI sent letters to all those gun owners, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for test firings over the weekend at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah.

About 40 of those gun owners showed up on Saturday and Sunday, and their weapons were fired once or twice and then returned to them.

The fired bullets and shell casings, meanwhile, were sent to a crime lab for analysis to determine if any of them match those used in the slayings of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.

Brown said about five of the gun owners no longer owned the weapons, but they provided the names of the new owners.

The other 15 or so gun owners who did not show up will be checked by the OSBI to see why they didn't volunteer for the test firings.

"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help."

Continued...
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they eventually may want to help after we threaten them a little...maybe????
 
In case it hasn't been posted yet...........

.....here's a copy of the letter they sent out.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation requests your voluntary assistance with the homicide investigation concerning the June 8th, 2008 deaths of 13 year old Taylor Paschal Placker and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker in rural Okfuskee County. A review of firearms records reflect that you previously purchased a Glock .40 caliber pistol.

On August 16 & 17, 2008 from 9 a.m to 9 p.m, an OSBI agent will be at the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Department, 209 North 3rd Street,Okemah,OK. Please bring your unloaded pistol to the Sheriff's Department. The OSBI will test fire your pistol onsite,then return it to you.The shell casings and projectiles will be retained for comparison purposes. The OSBI will provide the ammuntion.

If you are unable to bring the handgun to the Sheriff's Department, please call 1-918-623-1148 or the OSBI at 1-800-635-TIPS(8477) so that the OSBI can make other arrangements to test fire your pistol.

If you no longer have possession of the Glock .40,please call 1-918-623-1148 or 1-800-635-8477. Please be prepared to provide the name,address and telephone number of the person now in possession of the gun.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,


Ben Rosser,Special Agent
OSBI East Central Regional Office
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I have no problem with the above letter. I have a problem with gun dealers releasing information on innocent gun owners without permission. If I did biz at a gun shop that did such a thing, I would not ever shop there again.
 
I think if I was a gun owner/buyer in OK, I'd be very interested in which gunshops opened their books, and what tactic was used by Law Enforcement to get into them.
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And NEVER do business again with a gun dealer who gave that info out without a search warrant.
 
I have a problem with gun dealers releasing information on innocent gun owners without permission.
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I find this an interesting sentiment that many people here seem to share. Major phone companies and internet service providers like ATT and Verizon are well known for providing records to the government when simply asked (its fighting the terrorists afterall). Qwest is the only major telco that has a record of demanding a subpoena to release their customers records. Does everyone here get as equally bent out of shape about the telephone companies doing that? I've gotten the impression in the past that many posters feel its fine because its for the greater good and a subpoena would just slow things down.
 
reading that letter made my stomach turn. it was not worded in such a way that made it obvious it was "voluntary". this trend of identifying owners of the weapon in question and asking them to "voluntarily" submit to testing makes me sick...
 
I find this an interesting sentiment that many people here seem to share. Major phone companies and internet service providers like ATT and Verizon are well known for providing records to the government when simply asked (its fighting the terrorists afterall). Qwest is the only major telco that has a record of demanding a subpoena to release their customers records. Does everyone here get as equally bent out of shape about the telephone companies doing that? I've gotten the impression in the past that many posters feel its fine because its for the greater good and a subpoena would just slow things down.
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i, for one, have just as much problem with the phone companies doing it as i do with gun dealers or anyone else. so at least you can't fault me for being inconsistent.
 
Soybomb I think most people who are disturbed by this are equally opposed to the examples you mention, but a lot of those things go under the radar and people aren't even aware they're happening. I think if the government wants access to private information it should present its case to a judge and get a warrant. When I sit back and think of all the different checks and balances each branch of government has over the others, I realize just how brilliant the Founding Fathers were. It upsets me when our modern government and our modern population acts as if those things are just quaint little anachronisms. I'm afraid we're living in the age of the ascendant executive, it's just running rough shod over the other two branches of government and being held to pitifully little account.
 
geekWithA.45 wrote:

Personally, I find the matter to be offensive.

The last time it came up, I pointed out other analogies that most people would find offensive (Such as requiring all males of a certain shoe size to bring in all their shoes to see if they match footprints found near the site of a rape), and yet gun owners are simply expected to suck it up.
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I understand what you're saying, and if I were a cop or politician I would be equally unlikely to suggest either. But...

The burden of proof is on the accuser.
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Of course it is. But the burden of knowing one's rights is on the accused.

If a police officer says "Get out, I am searching your car" [with no reason, at a traffic stop] and you don't refuse to let him search, it is an A-OK search. Why? Because you didn't know that he didn't have a right to, so you "let" him.

Sucks for you, go read about the law.

If these people thought they were required to take their gun in, that's too bad; they should have passed 11th grade persuasive writing.

Unethical to suggest it's mandatory without actually saying so? Sure... Illegal, or a "violation" in some way? I would argue not.
 
Gun dealer records are subject to inspection by police. thats just the way it is. No warrant or subpoena is required.

The letter is worded as a polite request. I don't have a problem with it.

I still want to know if 40 calibers owned or assigned to police officers are being tested.
 
In every case, it's a sign of cluelessness and desparation on the part of the authorities. ("Do something! Do Anything!). In no case did it ever contribute to the solution of the crime.


really? you skim past the link on the guy who voluntarily submitted his dna to try to senfd his brother up for murder? got nailed himself for a cold case rape.

never is such a strong word and in this case the wrong word though indeed its a sign of desperation when they get to this. its funny how that works they start with the easy stuff and work on down the line as stuff doesn't pan out
 
"Aren't LEO required to conduct investigations based on the facts?"

no wht would that be? when they get stuck they play long shots and hunches. do you imagine , and i chose imagine carefully, that is a violation of law or some right
 
conwict said:
But the burden of knowing one's rights is on the accused.

If a police officer says "Get out, I am searching your car" [with no reason, at a traffic stop] and you don't refuse to let him search, it is an A-OK search. Why? Because you didn't know that he didn't have a right to, so you "let" him.

Sucks for you, go read about the law.
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I'm pretty sure that that situation would be an illegal search. Every time I've heard of police conducting a 'consensual' search, they phrase it as a request - not an order.

Also, it has been very clearly established that the police do have a requirement to inform you of your rights under some circumstances (Miranda).
 
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