Officials Seize AK-47s At SoCal Pawn Shop

[Quiet]

Are you 100% sure? CA has that safe affadavit form and dealers in CA are still having people fill them out. It may be a Federal law that required the handgun to have a gun lock.

Yes. I am 100% sure.
The safe affadavit only applies to long arms (rifles/shotguns) and does not apply to handguns.

CA Penal Code 12088.1
(a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.
(b) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state shall be accompanied with warning language or labels as described in Section 12088.3.
(c)(1) All long-gun safes commercially sold or transferred in this state, or manufactured in this state for sale in this state, that do not meet the standards for gun safes adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2 shall be accompanied by the following warning:
"WARNING: This gun safe does not meet the safety standards for gun safes specified in California Penal Code Section 12088.2. It does not satisfy the requirements of Penal Code Section 12088.1, which mandates that all firearms sold in California be accompanied by a firearms safety device or proof of ownership, as required by law, of a gun safe that meets the Section 12088.2 minimum safety standards developed by the California Attorney General."
(2) This warning shall be conspicuously displayed in its entirety on the principal display panel of the gun safe's package, on any descriptive materials that accompany the gun safe, and on a label affixed to the front of the gun safe.
(3) This warning shall be displayed in both English and Spanish in conspicuous and legible type in contrast by typography, layout, or color with other printed matter on the package or descriptive materials in a manner consistent with Part 1500.121 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or successor regulations thereto.
(d) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Section 12088.2. Gun safes shall not be required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without appearing on the Department of Justice roster.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.
(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

 

[Moonclip]

As usual CA dealers thru ignorance and sheer unsurmountabilty of keeping track of laws do strange things. I've filled out safe affadavits for handguns recently even when buying a lock even though I own 2x CA approved safes.

 

[gunshow]

Why have a grip-less gun that CAN accept a hi cap mag, in a state where hi caps are illegal? Wouldn't a wasr with low capacity single stack receiver and pistol grip be legal in CA?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I read the California gun laws--mostly definitions (or daffy-nitions) of what's not a legal cosmetic feature--is about the same word count as the New Testament in the KJV Bible. How could anyone trying to abide by, or trying to enforce, those laws know what's legal or what's not?

In Tennessee, the gun laws are about the uses or intents of the user, not details about the appearance of the gun.

 

[plexreticle]

A lot of the tinfoil hats feel the federal government is out to take our rights.

This tinfoil hat feels the state and local governments are doing it for them.

Rounding up guns in the name of public safety.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

IF THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A CALIFORNIA LEGAL WASR:

I have discovered a market for the Saiga parts leftover from all those Saiga to AK stock conversions. That makes a Saiga look elegant.

 

[Librarian]

Yes. I am 100% sure.
The safe affadavit only applies to long arms (rifles/shotguns) and does not apply to handguns.

Regrettably, no.

(d) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:

Firearm, not long gun.

It's Federal law, 18 USC 922 (z) that's causing the safe affidavit/handgun mismatch. BATFE has not issued regulations which include a safe as 'secure gun storage', even though the Federal definitions do include them. Pending that, most FFLs who are interested in keeping their licenses are treating handgun sales as if the lock is required, since it's the only device the BATFE has mentioned in its letters to FFLs.

See some further discussion here.

 

[Moonclip]

I wish I could get a straight answer on this!

 

[Librarian]

I wish I could get a straight answer on this!

What's missing?

California requires a safety device with every firearm purchase. (Quiet posted the law up thread.)

Feds require 'secure storage' with handgun purchases. ( 18 USC 922 (z) )

If you buy a long gun, only CA law applies, and the safe affidavit works.

If you choose a handgun with a handgun lock, it has to be a CA-approved lock and must have been purchased within 30 days prior to delivery of the handgun. Some/many of the locks provided by handgun manufacturers are CA-approved, so you might get the required lock in the package.

The CA handgun lock satisfies the Fed requirement.

BEFORE the Fed requirement, a 'safe affidavit' satisfied California's requirement for handguns; it still does. However, BATFE has not issued regs. When they do, the regs should include a safe, since a safe is in the 'secure storage' definition at 18 USC 921 (a)(34). It is not yet written down in black and white for FFLs that a safe satisfies the new requirement, and there is no Federal equivalent of California's safe affidavit.

UNTIL BATFE issues regs, a sensible FFL in California will hesitate to accept the safe affidavit for handguns. The law is perfectly clear on the point - a safe qualifies. But the BATFE is not known for flexibility, and the trouble possible for an FFL over a $6 lock is too much to ask one to risk.

The net effect is that when you buy a handgun in CA, plan to buy a lock for it to satisfy the Feds. As far as California is concerned, you can go to a store on the way to pick up your handgun, buy a CA-approved lock, bring it with you to the FFL and show the receipt to the FFL. After you are delivered your handgun, stop on the way home, return the lock, and go put your handgun in your safe.

You had the lock when the handgun was delivered, just as both Federal and California law demand. Nothing in either California or Federal law requires you to keep the lock.

 

[Mauserguy]

Ah yes, the WASR 10. I have one too that I bought at a gun show. They are perfectly legal, no gray area at all, as long as you don't install the pistol grip. They sell them with the pistol grip, you just can't install it.

Yeah, it's a pretty dumb law, but our legislators are a bunch of cooks. The state is running a ten billion dollar deficit, and is scheduled to go bankrupt next year, but the legislature is very concerned with writing nonsense laws. It's really very sad. Oh well, we'll be part of Mexico soon anyway, so it doesn't really matter anymore.
Mauserguy