States Consider Gun-Access Laws

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The Sheriff

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Gun Laws

States consider gun-access laws

By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY
Some companies in several states could be barred from telling their employees to keep their guns at home if lawmakers prevail in a battle that pits gun rights advocates against private businesses.
While no state allows workers to carry weapons into the workplace, at least six states — Alaska, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Mississippi and Oklahoma — have enacted legislation prohibiting some employers from barring their workers from leaving guns locked in their cars in employee parking lots.

Now, several more states are considering such laws. Supporters say licensed gun owners should have access to their weapons in case they need them for self-defense on the trek to and from home.

If employers can ban guns from workers' cars, "it would be a wrecking ball to the Second Amendment," which governs the right to bear arms, says Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

Many business organizations and gun-control advocates argue, however, that such laws clash with employers' responsibility to maintain safe workplaces and their right to determine what to allow on their private property.

These laws are "a systematic attempt to force guns into every nook and cranny in society and prohibit anyone, whether it's private employers (or) college campuses … from barring guns from their premises," says Brian Siebel, senior attorney for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

There were 516 workplace homicides — 417 of them caused by gunfire — in 2006, the most recent tally available, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. "There's certainly no need to allow guns in these parking lots," Siebel says. "The increased risks are obvious."

The moves to ensure that workers can have guns locked up in workplace parking lots come at a time of high-stakes debate over gun rights. The Supreme Court is likely to rule this year on whether Washington, D.C., can continue its 32-year-old ban on residents owning handguns.

States considering bills to expand workers' gun rights:

•Arizona. State Rep. Jonathan Paton, a Republican, says he sponsored his bill last month after a constituent told him he drives isolated roads to work but is not allowed to keep a handgun in his car. "It just comes down to the right of self-defense," Paton says.

•Tennessee. The proposed legislation, introduced in January, excludes correctional facilities and properties owned by the federal government. An amendment may be added to allow businesses that have secure parking areas that are less prone to crime to ban guns there.

"I respect property and business rights," says state Sen. Paul Stanley, a Republican sponsoring the bill. "But I also think that some issues need to overshadow this. … We have a right to keep and bear arms."

•Georgia. The legislature is considering a bill to allow licensed gun owners to leave their gun in a locked vehicle on their company's parking lot if the employer permits it.

The NRA and other gun rights advocates began pushing the parking lot legislation after Weyerhaeuser in 2002 fired several of its Oklahoma employees when guns were found in their vehicles, violating company policy.

Two years later, Oklahoma's Legislature passed a law prohibiting employersfrom banning guns locked inside parked cars. A federal judge in October issued a permanent injunction against the law, a decision being appealed.

The laws are being considered as the number of states that allow a law-abiding adult to carry a concealed gun in public has reached 40, legal experts say.

"It's part of the general movement to allow people to have guns for self-defense not only at home, but in public places where they're most likely needed," says Eugene Volokh, a professor at UCLA School of Law who specializes in gun policy. He says employers face more constraints than in the past.

LaPierre says laws that allow people holding proper permits to carry firearms for personal protection are largely nullified when employers can prohibit workers from locking a gun in their parked cars. "Saying you can protect yourself with a firearm when you get off work late at night is meaningless if you can't keep it in the trunk of your car when you're at work," he says.

Some constitutional law experts say the Second Amendment does not give gun owners a constitutionally protected right to carry their weapons onto somebody else's private property when the owner doesn't want them to.

"If I said to somebody, 'You can't bring your gun into my house,' that person's rights wouldn't be violated," says Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor.

The American Bar Association sides with business owners, supporting "the traditional property rights of private employers and other private property owners to exclude" people with firearms.

Steve Halverson, head of Jacksonville-based construction company Haskell, says business owners should be able to decide whether to allow weapons in their parking lots. "I object to anyone telling me that we can't … take steps necessary to protect our employees," says Halverson, who enforces safety measures ranging from banning guns to requiring workers to wear hard hats.

"The context is workplace safety, and that's why it's important," he says. "The larger issue is property rights, and whether you as a homeowner and I as a business owner ought to have the right to say what comes onto our property."
 
The American Bar Association can go jump off a bridge.

The American Bar Association sides with business owners, supporting "the traditional property rights of private employers and other private property owners to exclude" people with firearms.
 
Here's a concept:

What's in my car is my business (PERIOD,PERIOD,PERIOD) You want to search my car call a cop and get a warrant. Produce some probable cause. And it better be good-lawyers are standing by.

And I'm just crazy enough to say "I quit, now go ahead and search the d**n car!" Then when they don't find anything-which they won't, don't drink, don't smoke, don't use drugs, don't even keep empty shell casings in the car--and they ask "Why did you quit if you didn't do anything wrong?" my response would be "F*** U!!"

Because people need to start voting with their feet and their dollars. That's the only thing these necktie wearing wannabe dictators understand. Anything else is viewed as an opening for a sales pitch or negotiation, which is like a recreational activity for them. When they can't hire and go bankrupt, maybe,just maybe some of them will scratch their heads and ask "Why doesn't anybody want to work for me?"

Sorry for the rant, but I have problems with being treated like a slave in my native country by people who try to bypass the law by using the power of the almighty buck.

<<Steaming>>
 
Some constitutional law experts say the Second Amendment does not give gun owners a constitutionally protected right to carry their weapons onto somebody else's private property when the owner doesn't want them to.

"If I said to somebody, 'You can't bring your gun into my house,' that person's rights wouldn't be violated," says Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor.

False parallel, in the eyes of the law there is a hell of a lot of difference between a private home and a for-profit business open to the public. (BTW I think Colleges and Universities fall under the "for profit business" as well). I'm trying to remember who, just recently, said essentially "if you want to carry then skip your education and carry". Talk about a statement that just burned me up. And some people think that's reasonable, to force a choice between education vs Safety.

I think we need more businesses and schools and such that are Firearms owner friendly.
 
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I don't need a gun in my car in the parking lot.
I really don't.
It's just sitting there, all alone, and waiting for me to take it for a ride.
I do need it, on the trip to and from the parking lot.

That's the problem.

AFS
 
I don't need a gun in my car in the parking lot.
I really don't.
It's just sitting there, all alone, and waiting for me to take it for a ride.
I do need it, on the trip to and from the parking lot.

That's the problem.

One step at a time...
 
"If I said to somebody, 'You can't bring your gun into my house,' that person's rights wouldn't be violated," says Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor.

Very poor analogy, especially from a high-falutin' law school bigwig.

The argument being made ISN'T the idea of "when I invite you over for poker you can't bring your gun into my home" -- the argument being made is "when I invite you over for poker you can't leave your gun in your car parked in my driveway."

There are many seperate ideas that are all being conflated together and probably on purpose to further confuse and obfuscate the antis' positions. And for all of you gun owners who think this is a private property rights issue -- it isn't. The courts and our legal system have long held that a business open to the public will be controlled and limited in certain areas. All that's trying to be done here is tell public businesses that this area is one in which they have no say; that is, for a person to keep a firearm in their locked vehicle regardless of where that vehicle is kept.

Ze said:
I'm trying to remember who, just recently, said essentially "if you want to carry then skip your education and carry".

Look to the sccc thread. Students for concealed carry on campus. I think that statement was said in relation to the SCCC by one of the Brady miscreants.


There were 516 workplace homicides — 417 of them caused by gunfire — in 2006, the most recent tally available, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. "There's certainly no need to allow guns in these parking lots," Siebel says. "The increased risks are obvious."

Well, they aren't obvious to me. Maybe he can point to some more of those statistics which show how many of the 417 were previously lawful, permit holding firearms owners. Then, he may have a point. But, considering that there are probably a million or more defensive uses of firearms every year, I would think that the safety of those million people far outweighs the property rights of open to the public businesses.
 
Because people need to start voting with their feet and their dollars. That's the only thing these necktie wearing wannabe dictators understand.

You know, I did that almost 2 years ago. I packed my stuff and left NYC for sunny south FL.

Funny thing is, I'm considering another movie... Virginia, Montana look very nice.
 
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