Outlaws
Member
I am not sure if this is 100% true, but it sounds like they stopped shipping to Cali a couple years ago, but might have restarted. The Trojan is on the approved lists apparently.
STI joins Barrett and Refuses to sell to Ca
- Thread starter Jim Diver
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Librarian
Member
Some do. California has at least 336 city departments, 58 counties, a couple of state agencies.
I know that my city's LEO [used to? I think still do] get to pick from a department approved list, which does include .45.
crazed_ss
Member
I see a lot of San Diego PD officers at the local gun stores here and they always seem to have a fancy schmancy 1911 for their duty gun.
I applaud STI, but I dont see how this is gonna help CA gun owners. So we cant get STI 1911s? That's just more business for Springfield Armory's custom shop or any of the other high end 1911 makers.
I certainly dont want Glock and S&W to stop doing business here. I still want to buy a Glock 19 and a nice .357 snub.
simpleguy
Member
I hear some of us saying "do they even have law enforcement sales?" and "they don't even have any approved weapons in California"....to be honest even thought that may be true, I like the fact that they are standing up to be counted. That's awesome! Maybe we are learning to market as well as the Anti community.
joab
Member
What difference could where one little black lady sat make
One person in one seat on one bus, not much of a statement when you break it down
One person in one seat on one bus, not much of a statement when you break it down
The problem is that people are too lazy to call or write their representatives or get out and vote, they might miss part of the game or Idol their manicure. It is an honor to be an American, stand up and show your colors, I may only have one vote but I've got a big mouth (or so I've been told once or twice).
Dave
All that is necessary for evil to flourish is good men to do nothing.
Dave
All that is necessary for evil to flourish is good men to do nothing.
billwiese
Member
Several comments, from someone behind the lines...
If we really want STI guns in CA, we'll just have an outta-state FFL drop unramped 22Short uppers with 6+" bbls on them and then take advantage of the single-shot exemption in the law.
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
- Maybe I'm missing soemthing, but I don't see any STI guns on the approved list (unless Strayer-Voigt is another name for them, not sure, prob not - two Strayer-Voigt 'Infinity' models are indeed on the approved list).
- LE dealers can still get them from out of state distributors, so their threat is more pose than anything;
- It amazes me someone wants to punish CA gunnies instead of, say, getting guns approved and giving discounts to NRA members and non-LE.
- The smarmy comments about us not voting is incorrect. We got stabbed in the back by some stupid behavior of GOC (Gun Owners of California)' Sam Paredes - who caused a ruckus related another gun matter and that got enough bad press Governor bit back (long story, details on Calguns).
- STI sells, what, a few hundred or a maybe thousand guns a year, perhaps a tad more? Whatever.
If we really want STI guns in CA, we'll just have an outta-state FFL drop unramped 22Short uppers with 6+" bbls on them and then take advantage of the single-shot exemption in the law.
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
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mljdeckard
Member
I absolutely applaud them, and will look for creative ways to support both of these companies. BUT;
Like others have said, we need support from companies (GLOCK) that CA LE agencies (BERETTA) actually (SIG) (H&K) use in large numbers.
And lets be honest here, if one of us lived in CA, and really wanted one of these guns, we would take the Saturday drive to NV or AZ to get one.
Like others have said, we need support from companies (GLOCK) that CA LE agencies (BERETTA) actually (SIG) (H&K) use in large numbers.
And lets be honest here, if one of us lived in CA, and really wanted one of these guns, we would take the Saturday drive to NV or AZ to get one.
Gator
Member
Great! This might be the excuse I've been needing to buy that new STI SAA. 
Anotherguy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2007
- Messages
- 152
Good for STI. However, for gun manufacturers to really make their point they should simply keep selling to the regular folks but refuse any law enforcement sales. I know, that would be hard to police but if Glock, Sig Sauer, S&W, etc. would all make it policy it might actually cause a stir.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Now if only SIG and Glock can jump on board, maybe we can make a difference.
It doesn't really matter that civilians couldn't buy thier guns before, STI never wanted to pay the fees to CA and I don't blame them, but now they have a statement to make a stand on. I took the buisness I was going to give STI, to Kimber on an Aegis 9mm a few months back, but STI is still in buisness and makeing great guns.
Barrett does offer the .416 in CA legal, just the Model 99 (bolt action) no semi autos for the PRCK. I'm suprized they don't sell the .50 DTC out here, just to dispise the CA legislator.
Barrett will not, WILL NOT, service CA Law Enforcement Agencys... they will service the Armed Services that are in CA... just not the LE. It ain't personal, it's just a few LEO have been on TV, probly saying things like "a .50 cal bullet will go through 3 cars, come out and still has the power to kill you".
So how many people were killed in the US last year by .50BMG bullets... I'll bet more were killed with Squirt Guns or had heart attacks not believeing how stupid the CA legislative branch is?
Barrett does offer the .416 in CA legal, just the Model 99 (bolt action) no semi autos for the PRCK. I'm suprized they don't sell the .50 DTC out here, just to dispise the CA legislator.
Barrett will not, WILL NOT, service CA Law Enforcement Agencys... they will service the Armed Services that are in CA... just not the LE. It ain't personal, it's just a few LEO have been on TV, probly saying things like "a .50 cal bullet will go through 3 cars, come out and still has the power to kill you".
So how many people were killed in the US last year by .50BMG bullets... I'll bet more were killed with Squirt Guns or had heart attacks not believeing how stupid the CA legislative branch is?
Wildfire
Member
$$$ are power.
I f we all started writing Rem, Win, SW, ect and let them know how we will spend our $$$ they may jump on the wagon. Boycot california.
Same with Midway and all the other mail order, any one in the industry.
Does anything good ever come out of that state any more ?
I f we all started writing Rem, Win, SW, ect and let them know how we will spend our $$$ they may jump on the wagon. Boycot california.
Same with Midway and all the other mail order, any one in the industry.
Does anything good ever come out of that state any more ?
kd7nqb
Member
This is a step in the right direction but when GLOCK does it THEN they will notice. It would be a good day when the headline can read "Cops cant buy guns because of dumb law"
Nothing good comes out of California, except maybe porn. You're never going to get Hk on board - they're fond of over-engineering, and besides, they hate us because we suck. LE and military are their target markets. Don't see GLOCK giving Hk an open run in Cali. Sig has enough US presence that they might care, but your best shot is going to have to be Colt and S&W.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
How many firearm manufacturers are queued up in line to add the miniscule cost of "microstamping" into their manufacuring process in order to satisfy CA law? Will they limit that action to CA sales only? (hardly)
To paraphrase a horrible poster slogan from the 60/70's... What if they passed a law and no one obeyed it?
All it takes is one company or two to start a movement, followed by a clamor and groundswell of the commoners who aren't afraid of cutting off their nose to spite their face because, well, frankly they already have all the firearms they 'need' and are willing to spend their money on maintenance and upkeep of their older possessions (or ammo, must start saving more for ammo).
If CA is the 8th largest economic community in the world, what is their standing percentage of total American Firearms sales? 20%? 25%? More? Less? I wonder what fraction of that unknown is related to semi-automatic handguns?
Ron Barrett stood his ground on one issue (.50 bmg prohibition), then came up with a brilliant alternative. STI is approaching this to fight yet another issue, but unless they manufacture revolvers they have no optional play. They may not be a "real" player anyway, but their statement does give us pause to wonder, "Will SIGSAUER, Beretta, HK, GLOCK and Colt Mfg follow suit? Will S&W and Taurus play along?"
Should the major players boycott the CA State decree, would the rest of the nations gunbuying enthusiasts pick up the now economic defunct CA slack? Or, conversly, should the big boys all decide to play the CA game, will the rest of the American gunbuyers band together to financially bring them to their knees (and senses) ala S&W/HUD agreement?
Perhaps there might be yet another massive American "Boycott" of those companies who comply and they can be driven out of the US economy until they see the error of their CA complying ways (and wouldn't the anti-rights activists love that? There's always that double edged sword thing huh? Doncha hate being backed into a corner? Makes ya mad enough to come out swingin sometimes, if the stakes are high enough)
Do we start writing activist grassroot letters now to the CEO's of the various manufacturers to guage our impact (if any)? Is it too early to get the Gun Blogs/Lobby groups fired up and take the offensive whilst the Heller/DC ban is on everyone's mind?
When the CA AWB took place (yawn) it didn't affect me, I didn't live in CA. I WAS WRONG THEN NOT TO DO OR SAY ANYTHING! (insert famous Martin Niemoller quote here) But when the 94 AWB took hold nationwide, when the S&W/HUD agreement hit the light of day, people stood up and got extremely serious nationwide. It even got BJ Clinton's attention IIRC.
What does it mean? I dunno. I do remember reading Tamara's blog on Zumbo and things started happening fast... real fast. Immediate like fast. But that was business, not government.
Hmmmm. This is... both. Isn't it?
It'll make for some interesting conversation at the upcoming SHOT show if grassroot activity is noted by the industry in Dec. and Jan.
http://www.shotshow.org/App/homepage.cfm?moduleid=1968&appname=100300 Maybe someone here knows Randy Travis and could ask him to make a comment or two whilst on stage.
Who knows. It might even get the attention of Presidential candidates about a year from now. That might be a good thing.
Ya think?
(notes to self. Need list & addresses of CEO's. Need to get into SHOT in Feb. Need to better organize my ramblings) [edited to add: 80 days to SHOT show]
To paraphrase a horrible poster slogan from the 60/70's... What if they passed a law and no one obeyed it?
All it takes is one company or two to start a movement, followed by a clamor and groundswell of the commoners who aren't afraid of cutting off their nose to spite their face because, well, frankly they already have all the firearms they 'need' and are willing to spend their money on maintenance and upkeep of their older possessions (or ammo, must start saving more for ammo).
If CA is the 8th largest economic community in the world, what is their standing percentage of total American Firearms sales? 20%? 25%? More? Less? I wonder what fraction of that unknown is related to semi-automatic handguns?
Ron Barrett stood his ground on one issue (.50 bmg prohibition), then came up with a brilliant alternative. STI is approaching this to fight yet another issue, but unless they manufacture revolvers they have no optional play. They may not be a "real" player anyway, but their statement does give us pause to wonder, "Will SIGSAUER, Beretta, HK, GLOCK and Colt Mfg follow suit? Will S&W and Taurus play along?"
Should the major players boycott the CA State decree, would the rest of the nations gunbuying enthusiasts pick up the now economic defunct CA slack? Or, conversly, should the big boys all decide to play the CA game, will the rest of the American gunbuyers band together to financially bring them to their knees (and senses) ala S&W/HUD agreement?
Perhaps there might be yet another massive American "Boycott" of those companies who comply and they can be driven out of the US economy until they see the error of their CA complying ways (and wouldn't the anti-rights activists love that? There's always that double edged sword thing huh? Doncha hate being backed into a corner? Makes ya mad enough to come out swingin sometimes, if the stakes are high enough)
Do we start writing activist grassroot letters now to the CEO's of the various manufacturers to guage our impact (if any)? Is it too early to get the Gun Blogs/Lobby groups fired up and take the offensive whilst the Heller/DC ban is on everyone's mind?
When the CA AWB took place (yawn) it didn't affect me, I didn't live in CA. I WAS WRONG THEN NOT TO DO OR SAY ANYTHING! (insert famous Martin Niemoller quote here) But when the 94 AWB took hold nationwide, when the S&W/HUD agreement hit the light of day, people stood up and got extremely serious nationwide. It even got BJ Clinton's attention IIRC.
What does it mean? I dunno. I do remember reading Tamara's blog on Zumbo and things started happening fast... real fast. Immediate like fast. But that was business, not government.
Hmmmm. This is... both. Isn't it?
It'll make for some interesting conversation at the upcoming SHOT show if grassroot activity is noted by the industry in Dec. and Jan.
http://www.shotshow.org/App/homepage.cfm?moduleid=1968&appname=100300 Maybe someone here knows Randy Travis and could ask him to make a comment or two whilst on stage.
Who knows. It might even get the attention of Presidential candidates about a year from now. That might be a good thing.
Ya think?
(notes to self. Need list & addresses of CEO's. Need to get into SHOT in Feb. Need to better organize my ramblings) [edited to add: 80 days to SHOT show]
ilcylic
Member
This just gives me even more incentive to buy an STI.
Heck, I'll even buy a GLOCK if they step up.
joab++
Heck, I'll even buy a GLOCK if they step up.
joab++
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Barrett wasn't exactly dealing with hundreds or thousands of .50 bmg rifles. It isn't like they had the pistol contract with LAPD or anything like that. Their gesture was more symbolic and actual. Same for STI.
In fact, STI has fewer dealers in California than they do Thailand! They have none in CA, 1 in Thailand. They do have a Distributor and as marketing rep. in California, but they have 5 distributors in Thailand. In other words, STI has a very small market in California. They are making a statement, but the statement is bigger than the impact of their actions. Few people are going to miss STI in California and probably no government/police agencies. STI doesn't have a contract with LAPD or other large police agencies.
With that said, if STI wants to boycott California by their own decision, that is terrific. I am certainly glad we have not boycotting STI into submission not to sell to California.
Beatnik
Member
The Zumbo incident is a good example of how we're using new tools to fight.
Thankfully, bills still take the same eternity to get passed - which is good, because our communication is instantaneous. We can react a lot quicker.
I think the most important thing is to keep others who aren't plugged in up-to-date on what's happening. There are plenty of Korea vets out there who see things our way, who simply don't know what's going on because they're not l33t.
Sadly, I think we've come to the absolute truth here of why they did this. If they're not getting anywhere in the PRK, it makes sense, business-wise, to stand up and decry microstamping, because we'll all run out to buy STI's.
After they've grown as a company as a result - that's when we need to remember what they did, and find out if they're following up.
Does anything good come from California? Well, if you're a wine drinker, the alternative probably comes from France... so that's a tough call!
ZeSpectre
Member
Simpleguy said
+1 on that.
+1 on that.
Barrett stills sells to Californians. The 419 Barrett, I think it's called. He just doesn't sell to LEO/Govt agencies.
STI isn't selling to anybody in kal. Kudos.
The problem with this is that kal is such a lucrative market that somebody will always sell to them.
STI isn't selling to anybody in kal. Kudos.
The problem with this is that kal is such a lucrative market that somebody will always sell to them.
I must say that the firearms industry is rather unique in this way. It seems like one of the last holdouts in quality American manufacturing. They could use as big a customer base as possible; and yet they make political moves like this.
Fascinating.
Fascinating.
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