Sticker Shock - STI Total Eclipse

[TexasBill]

In the current issue of the NRA's Shooting Illustrated, Bob Boyd reviews the new STI Total Eclipse, a compact, 1911-style pistol for CCW or backup use. The Total Eclipse has some nice features; the only negative Mr. Boyd found was the lack of an ambidextrous safety. He noted the gun malfunctioned twice with Speer and Winchester ammo but figured that was just part of the break-in and no big deal.

Then I saw the price: $1,825.00. That's one thousand, eight hundred twenty-five dollars. Thinking it might be a misprint, I checked STI's website and found Mr. Boyd was right on target.

$1,825.00? For a concealed carry piece that you're going to stuff in a holster or stick in a waistband?

I have long wondered about some of the almost silly prices of 1911-style pistols but even Colt isn't that wild: Adjusting for inflation, the $919.00 suggested retail price for a Series 70 Government Model isn't that much more than the $150.00 I paid when the series was new.

As far as I can tell, the Total Eclipse isn't magic, isn't infallible and isn't made of some rare earth or noble metal. It doesn't even have laser sights. The .45 ACP isn't a guaranteed, one-shot man-stopper. There are dozens of pistols that would seem to be just as good, if not better, SD weapons for far less money.

So what am I missing? There has got to be something (other than suffering from the more-money-than-brains syndrome) that would make the Total Eclipse attractive. Please let me know what it is!

 

[Gator06]

Kool Aid

 

[Six]

It's funny, most everyone has a price point in their head.

Anyone who buys above that point has too much money and not enough sense.

Anyone who buys below that point clearly doesn't value their life over mere possessions.

 

[merlinfire]

Does seem a bit high to me. Of course, the market will decide.

I could save and save and save until I could afford it, or I could buy something for 1/3 the price and actually be able to own it.

 

[oldbanjo]

The reason they ask those prices is people are paying it. I've seen a lot of nice guns in that price range, but I'd rather have two guns for my money.

 

[EdLaver]

My little $500 Citadel 1911 compact has been serving me well in CCW

 

[bigfatdave]

EdLaver, exactly what I was thinking, but I think I got mine for ~$475

Let's play math games:
1,825 / $475 = 1825 / 475 = 3.84 ... or three guns and some good magazines plus ammo

I think STI makes a damn nice product, every one I've seen has been used but in great shape and pleasing to the eye.
... But no more pleasing to the hand than any other standard 1911-pattern gun, and match-grade components aren't going to make a better defensive gun unless they're increasing reliability in a meaningful way.

But I can't fault someone who buys one over a cheaper model, so long as they're aware of the point of diminishing returns.
I do laugh at the people who get an expensive "custom" 1911 and then are scared to put it in a holster or get a smudge on it.

 

[Correia]

I guess it all depends on your perspective. I own a few STI products, love them all. They're my favorite company.

They've got standard price guns too. You can get their regular Trojan level guns for under $1,000, and I'd put them up against any normal 1911 from anybody. For CCW, if price is one of your primary buying factors, you can get a Guardian or a Rogue for well under a grand.

On the expensive ones, I've got a couple. They shoot brilliantly. I really mean that. They are superb guns. My 9mm 4.15 Tactical is like shooting a match-grade .22 with 24 round magazines. When I use it, everybody else on the line calls it my cheater heater. It makes me look like I know what I'm doing. With the stuff that I've got with it, I'm around $1,800 into that one pistol, and it was worth every penny. Would I do it again?

Totally. In fact, I'm dropping a lot more than that into one that I'm having built by them right now. It started life as a Perfect 10, but I've got a matching barrel, recoil assembly, and magazines in .40. I've got the slide lightened, and my logo engraved on it. I'm still trying to decide what color it should be.

And for the record, having been in the gun business, STI has the best customer service, and is the coolest folks to work with of any company, and there are some really good people at other companies. STI is just who I'd rather deal with.

That whole argument of, well, I can just buy an X and two cases of ammo instead! is kind of spurious. I've owned X, lots of different X in fact, and I've shot a couple hundred-thousand rounds in my life. (that's not a typo) So now I just save up and buy the really nice guns that I actually really want instead.

 

[bigfatdave]

They've got standard price guns too. You can get their regular Trojan level guns for under $1,000,

Am I missing a lower-cost officer's size model?
Because I looked and found nothing in compact even close to my price range.

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

STI makes extremely nice pistols and they back them up with customer service that is, in my opinion, best in the industry. Period. Fit and finish on every one I have seen has been excellent. Is it worth $1800? Must be as there always seems to be a wait when I'm trying to buy one.

While it is not mandatory to spend the extra coin on a firearm to make sure you are not getting junk, I certainly have an appreciation for higher end products and I don't mind spending the money for something I will keep a long time.

 

[jackpinesavages]

Last spring I had the money and an STI TargetMaster in .45 became mine. It was expensive, by MY standards, but THAT pistol is a thing of wonder compared to other 1911s I've shot. It's a thing of wonder against ALL pistols I've shot. I'm not a 1911 snob, or a certain brand name snob, but that pistol is a keeper.

I'm not good at tinkering with pistols, though, 1911s in particular. I bet a good 'smith can tune a $400 1911 to shoot just as well? I don't know. I have a thing for the Colt Delta Elite series, and SOME people think those are too expensive for what they are.

Now I 'm curious to read this article-where is it again?

 

[Correia]

bigfatdave, the Guardian and the Escort should both be around $1,000 retail if I remember correctly.

 

[DasFriek]

I bought my first 1911 about 1.5 years ago, its a Taurus PT1911 i paid $525 for.
The price is kept low on mine due to being produced in a foreign country where workers make alot less money, Also all of the small parts are made the cheapest way possible.

MIM= metal injection molding which is a quick and cheap way to make parts that are normally machined. Everything on my gun except the slide, Frame and barrel are made from MIM parts.
A MIM sear may be $6 while a machined and hand prepped sear may be $35

Then comes the tolerances which require hand fitting if your gonna have a tight gun.
MIM parts are made to be dropped in parts and thus loose and require no fitting most times.
While expensive machined parts are made oversized and have to have material removed by hand to make the part fit and when its done its a perfectly tight fit that will take time and use to loosen up.

In saying that my $525 PT1911 will do everything that STI will and most likley 90% of the people couldn't tell the difference between the 2 guns while shooting. So why pay $1300 more for the STI?
Well remember all those loose tolerances and cheaper made MIM parts? Eventually they will wear faster than a machined part and with already loose tolerances failures will go up as well as loss of accuracy.

But that could take 20k-30k rounds for that to happen.

Also you may say "Well Colt 1911's are still under $1k like they have been for years" But you wouldn't want to know about the numerous MIM parts in it, Plastic triggers and mainspring housings and many more cost saving measures.

Quality and human interaction cost money.
And you better pray that when you buy a Foreign made frame and slide they got a hold of quality metal that shipment and there are never any guarantees.

I bought my PT1911 as a CCW gun and a training tool to teach me 1911's and some gun smithing. Its taught me many other things also. But atm im in the process of replacing all MIM parts in the gun with quality machined parts that im hand fitting. By the time im done this will almost double the price of the gun.
But im fine with that even tho ill have $1000 in it it still will only be worth less than $375 as a trade in as its still a PT1911. Im doing it because im never gonna sell it and keep it for carry duty for many years to come.

Now an $1800 STI sounds like a bargain to me.

 

[JTQ]

The STI Total Eclipse is a relatively unique pistol. It is a compact (3" barrel), steel frame, double stack, made in the US pistol.

There is some premium to pay for such a unique pistol. One part of the premium is pride of ownership for the owner. However, another part of the premium is that the company can build something nobody else is building and getting it to work.

 

[JohnBT]

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" - Oscar Wilde

 

[JohnBiltz]

Nothing wrong with having something nice. I'm not a 1911 guy, in fact I'm a Glock guy. But I've got a lot more than that in my AR when you add optics. I think everyone at least once in their lives deserves to own something top of the line.

 

[harmon rabb]

"High end" 1911 prices are ridiculous.

 

[Oldfalguy]

I have one Colt Series 70 to my name and its plenty good enough for me.
To each his own I reckon but for myself I have not paid that for a pistol-
I have come close a couple of times with a minty P7M8 and a Night Stalker Sig Sauer of which very few were ever made.

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

If you don't find it to be worth the price, then you aren't the buyer they are targeting for when they build something like that. If you look at that gun and/or shoot it and say to yourself "My $500 ____ can do the same thing," then don't buy it. But if you pick it up and appreciate the craftsmanship involved with making the piece, than - if you can afford it - its for you. Personally, I can tell the difference between the "high end" 1911's and other guns. Not to say other guns don't have their place, but quality is quality and STI makes good stuff.

The most relevant thing I can think of are people that say pizza is pizza. There are people out there that know the difference between Pizza Hut and Michaelini's - but in the end they do the same thing: make a turd. Choose what you want, it's your money!

Damian

 

[smoothdraw]

I thought Wilson and Les Baer are expensive! When you start seeing John Harrison, Heirloom Precision custom 1911, those Wilson, Ed Brown specially Dan Wesson are bargain. At the same token Kimbers are expensive for what they ask for their weapons.