i have been trying to work up a good accurate hunting load for my brothers 30-06 B.A.R. but i am not having a lot of luck. one really curious thing it does, is every time i shoot it, the first round shoots about 2" low and to the right. and this holds true on every load i have tried. i have cleaned the action and the barrel, including making sure there is no copper in the barrel. i have checked the scope mounts at ever location, and every screw is TIGHT. most of the rest of the groups run anywhere between 2 1/2 - 5 1/2" @ 100 yards. which is not very good. i have so far (in 26 different loads come up with 2 in the 1 1/2 - 1 3/4" range (which i have not repeated yet). which is not bad, but i would really like to get tighter. we are thinking there is a scope problem, so he is sending me another scope to try. if anyone can think of other things to check before i go waste a bunch more bullets, powder and primers, please let me know. oh, i am shooting off a solid bench, on a good solid rest. with this set up, i have no problem turning out groups under 3/4" on some of my rifles. the trigger on this is better than most. so i do not think i or that is to blame. especially since i did shoot a 3/4" group on the same day as shooting this. and i am not very recoil sensitive. i normally shoot a 300 win mag and a 45/70.
strange problem
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Certaindeaf
member
I wonder if you're getting bullet setback seating/chambering the first round from the magazine. Perhaps even cocking the bullet case relationship when chambering.
When at the range, unchamber that first round and measure and scrutinize it for cloutage.
Roll it on a flat surface too to check for roundness/concentricity.
Anyway, good luck.
When at the range, unchamber that first round and measure and scrutinize it for cloutage.
Roll it on a flat surface too to check for roundness/concentricity.
Anyway, good luck.
sansone
Member
many rifles launch a wild one for that first cold shot. If it's consistent some hunters sight-in for that first shot because that's all we get sometimes.
The BAR is a great rifle but not because of exceptional accuracy. I feel it is in a class like the mini 14, great gun but not exactly a tack driver IMHO
The BAR is a great rifle but not because of exceptional accuracy. I feel it is in a class like the mini 14, great gun but not exactly a tack driver IMHO
RainDodger
Member
I handload for my .243 BAR and found that cartridge overall length is critical in my rifle. It took some experimentation, but I got it to average around 1.5 MOA, and I don't have a first round flyer. That's the extent of my experience. I have not noticed any sensitivity to where you place your sand bags on the forend, but it sounds like others have. That's kind of interesting. I'll watch for that myself.
Driftertank
Member
What sort of bullets are you using? Kind of an unlikely suggestion, given that the BAR is a hunting rifle rather than a military type like mine, but i've noticed PSP bullets get their tips damaged quite a bit feeding into my PTR, which results in a pattern rather than a group...
Do you crimp your rounds? Many people decry crimping as a source of innaccuracy, but i think setback and induced eccentricity are worse, and so would recommend (at least lightly) crimping for a semi. Just make sure your brass is trimmed consistently so tension is consistent from round to round.
Do you crimp your rounds? Many people decry crimping as a source of innaccuracy, but i think setback and induced eccentricity are worse, and so would recommend (at least lightly) crimping for a semi. Just make sure your brass is trimmed consistently so tension is consistent from round to round.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
It's really not a strange problem. Many barrels will shoot the first shot from a clean barrel to a different point. Sometimes several fouling shots are needed for the rifle to settle down. I would sight it in so my first shot hits zero and leave it there.
KansasSasquatch
Member
Load up the magazine, fire the first shot, put the safety on, and then wait 10 minutes. Then go back and fire it again. Repeat this process until the magazine is empty. Use the load that has worked the best so far. If you get an acceptable grouping by doing that, chances are the "cold bore shot" is just off by a good bit. If the rifle is going to be used for hunting, you'll probably want to dial in the scope for that cold bore shot.
sage5907
Member
A friend had a 243 BAR that shot in two distinct points of impact. Each point of impact would group well but it would switch back and forth in a firing sequence. It would shoot maybe two rounds right together low and then jump three inches higher for the next two or three rounds and then back low again. Never did figure it out. Shooter
i have had a lot of rifle barrels "walk" with heat. but never anywhere near this much, in one shot. 2 of the three rifles that i currently hunt with do. but over 4 rounds, it is less than 1 1/2", and the first and second shots are always within 1/2" of each other. of course, those rounds are dialed in, and are quite accurate to begin with.
squarepants33889
Member
I have heard that the 1st round in a semi auto can be chambered slightly differently than the rest because of the difference in force between the cocking stroke and the semi auto relock.
Interesting theory, Im not sure it holds up. I would have thought the spring weight keeps that constant.
Interesting theory, Im not sure it holds up. I would have thought the spring weight keeps that constant.
stubbicatt
Member
The Tokarev rifle (SVT40) was developed in a sniper role, but failed due to first round shooting wildly out of the grouping from the rest. They were never able to figure this out.
I read your posting, but most rifles need a few fouling shots to settle into any sort of recognizable group. Many "dirty gun" shooters find that it isn't so much the cold barrel as it is the lack of fouling which pulls rounds out of the group.
So: Question: Is it the first round from a clean barrel, or is it the first round from each magazine that shoots erratically? If it is the clean barrel round, you have probably found your culprit. Before shooting for group, dump about 5 sacrificial rounds into the berm, and then load up the rounds you wish to test. .... Also on that subject, it seems that you will want to use the same powder for your sacrificial rounds, I remember reading in one of the Precision Shooting mags somewhere that someone had experimented to find that the powder fouling from one type of ball powder adversely affected subsequent extruded powder rounds in POI.
Gee. Isn't this fun?
I read your posting, but most rifles need a few fouling shots to settle into any sort of recognizable group. Many "dirty gun" shooters find that it isn't so much the cold barrel as it is the lack of fouling which pulls rounds out of the group.
So: Question: Is it the first round from a clean barrel, or is it the first round from each magazine that shoots erratically? If it is the clean barrel round, you have probably found your culprit. Before shooting for group, dump about 5 sacrificial rounds into the berm, and then load up the rounds you wish to test. .... Also on that subject, it seems that you will want to use the same powder for your sacrificial rounds, I remember reading in one of the Precision Shooting mags somewhere that someone had experimented to find that the powder fouling from one type of ball powder adversely affected subsequent extruded powder rounds in POI.
Gee. Isn't this fun?
adelbridge
Member
I have a .30-06 BAR longtrac and it most definitely strings with heat. I get 1" groups with ballistic silvertip factory loads if I keep it cool. Once my barrel gets hot it starts stringing vertically up to about an inch. These rifles are not free floated like a bolt gun. If the scope was zeroed on a hot barrel that would explain the first shot being off. Check the torque on the forend as well.
well, after some more testing today, thanks to the suggestions here, i found the problem. jak67429 hit the nail on the head. i shot several rounds zeroing in a different scope. then tried several suggestions. moving the rifle forward 4- 5" in the rest (which made it very uncomfortable to shoot that way) moved the point of impact a whopping 14" @ 110 yards! letting the rifle itself rest, with only my shoulder and trigger finger touching the rifle (taking my hand off the rear stock) resulted in another 2" of difference. i have never seen anything like this. i can not imagine ever being able to use a sling to steady your shot if you had to with one of these. a hunting rifle, yes. a GOOD hunting rifle, i am not so sure about that. i am glad i have a Remington 700, and a pair of Marlins that shoot good.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
i'm not a fan of the BAR. they're heavy and not as accurate as i'd like.
PercyShelley
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Interesting; I hadn't heard that before about the SVT, but the FAL will occasionally exhibit a similar problem. The downward-tilting bolt is usually fingered as the culprit. Because the tail end of the bolt goes downwards it has to fight magazine spring pressure. Therefore, the exact orientation of the bolt depends on magazine spring pressure, and therefore how many rounds are left in the magazine.
Not that this bit of trivia is especially helpful to the OP; I'm pretty sure BARs don't work like that.
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