vanfunk
Member
Excellent point ECVMatt. I find a stock 1911 to be very easy to take down but a Glock practically falls apart when you start dismantling it. 40 years later, it’s still an extraordinarily simple design.
Striker Fired: What am I Missing?
- Thread starter Redcoat3340
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trackskippy
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The "initial" take up on a Glock trigger is just like the take up on any two stage military type trigger. Its done initially, without thought, and then it breaks, and then you have a very short reset. If you're letting the trigger all the way back out every time you pull the trigger and encountering a "long pull", you're doing it wrong.
None of my Glocks ( I have a bunch of them of different Gen's too), have a mushy break. Some of the different Gen's do have a slightly different feel, and they all break clean, like all but one of my factory stock Colt 1911's triggers break, at right around 5-6 pounds. Nor do they have any perceptible overtravel that I can see/feel.
I had a P10C that pretty much fits your definition of a Glock trigger to a tee. Mushy with no discernable wall and lots of over travel. Wasnt bad if you ignored it, but if you focused on it, you noticed it was different.
I have or have had multiple versions of most of the big name makers guns, and shoot a number of them regularly, and usually side by side with my Glocks, and have no trouble with any of them. Unless something is majorly wrong with the trigger, I dont dwell on any of them as I shoot either, so maybe that's some of what you have going on. Im not a trigger-phobic shooter.
vanfunk
Member
Hi Trackskippy:
I am confident that you’re a far better Glock shooter than I am. Yes, the takeup is somewhat incidental compared to others when riding the reset. But the wall and overtravel on my three Gen 5 Glocks lag behind others significantly. I find it very distracting and cannot shoot my Glocks as accurately as my other pistols by any means. No doubt there is variability between specific examples and round counts. My Glocks each have about 2k rounds through them so they may not be at peak performance yet. Glocks of course can be improved with a myriad of upgrades but my experience is that there are many better choices for a stock trigger in a polymer striker-fired pistol.
I am confident that you’re a far better Glock shooter than I am. Yes, the takeup is somewhat incidental compared to others when riding the reset. But the wall and overtravel on my three Gen 5 Glocks lag behind others significantly. I find it very distracting and cannot shoot my Glocks as accurately as my other pistols by any means. No doubt there is variability between specific examples and round counts. My Glocks each have about 2k rounds through them so they may not be at peak performance yet. Glocks of course can be improved with a myriad of upgrades but my experience is that there are many better choices for a stock trigger in a polymer striker-fired pistol.
gc70
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How many replacements parts do you carry out in the desert and way up in the mountains?
ECVMatt
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@gc70 - It really depends on what I am doing. I generally carry a recoil spring assembly, firing pin spring and cups, and a trigger spring in a small plastic bag with a Glock tool. They take up minimal space (less than a Bic lighter) and to be honest I have not needed to every replace anything on the go. I just like having handy if needed. My friends and I camp in pretty remote places so running back to town for things is not an option. I have had to disassemble my 20 and clean it when I took a good slide down a mud bank in Texas.
To me it is like making sure you have a jack, tow strap, air in the spare, and simple tools to work on the truck. I can't see a down side to it and it has just become a habit.
To me it is like making sure you have a jack, tow strap, air in the spare, and simple tools to work on the truck. I can't see a down side to it and it has just become a habit.
hemiram
Member
I have a few polymer striker guns and a few SA/DA hammer polymer guns. In every case, I like the hammer fired guns more. My favorite striker gun is my Taurus GX4 TORO, mostly for it's fantastic grip than any other reason.
again meh.. having lost a spring loaded bearing, even your almighty is not immune.
Old Dog
Member
Have you any extensive experience with the triggers on some of the later production Walthers. SIGs or HKs? Anyway, I guess "worse than" is mostly subjective when it comes to striker-fired pistols, but many of us (1) don't favor the pronounced "dingus," liking more a smooth-faced trigger; (2) like a somewhat longer and smoother pull and (3) don't subscribe to the notion that the shortest reset is the "better" trigger.
Later in my shooting lifetime (yeah, I'm over retirement age now) I've come to appreciate many aspects of polymer-framed striker pistols -- light weight, good balance, favorable ergonomics, pointability, higher capacity in slim and concealable packages, consistent trigger pulls -- but I'm not ready to declare any one platform as The Winner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRWlnv0_svU
THE WINNER by BOBBY BARE
The Winner by Bobby Bare1976 Songwriter: SHEL SILVERSTEIN More Info & Newest Updates about BOBBY BARECOUNTRY MUSIC HALL OF FAMEBOBBY BAREhttps://countrymusi...
www.youtube.com
ExtremeSquared
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Striker fired polymer handguns are extremely impressive from an engineering / manufacturing standpoint.
Provably higher function per manufacturing cost ratio than anything hammer-fired or metal-framed.
That's why everyone should buy that economically-inefficient steel-frame hammer-fired handgun while they still exist.
Provably higher function per manufacturing cost ratio than anything hammer-fired or metal-framed.
That's why everyone should buy that economically-inefficient steel-frame hammer-fired handgun while they still exist.
trackskippy
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LOL. I just heard that Bobby Bare song on my Pandora stream the other day. Johnny Paycheck's Colorado Kool Aide too.View attachment 1202404
Have you any extensive experience with the triggers on some of the later production Walthers. SIGs or HKs? Anyway, I guess "worse than" is mostly subjective when it comes to striker-fired pistols, but many of us (1) don't favor the pronounced "dingus," liking more a smooth-faced trigger; (2) like a somewhat longer and smoother pull and (3) don't subscribe to the notion that the shortest reset is the "better" trigger.
Later in my shooting lifetime (yeah, I'm over retirement age now) I've come to appreciate many aspects of polymer-framed striker pistols -- light weight, good balance, favorable ergonomics, pointability, higher capacity in slim and concealable packages, consistent trigger pulls -- but I'm not ready to declare any one platform as The Winner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRWlnv0_svU
THE WINNER by BOBBY BARE
The Winner by Bobby Bare1976 Songwriter: SHEL SILVERSTEIN More Info & Newest Updates about BOBBY BARECOUNTRY MUSIC HALL OF FAMEBOBBY BAREhttps://countrymusi...
I shoot all sorts of different guns a couple of times a week. DA, DAO, SA, Striker, I have a good bit of experience with all of them and don't have any problem shooting well with any of them either. I also shoot them all the time and put in a lot of time and effort over the years getting acquainted with them too.
I think a lot of the problem here is, people only know what they know (usually just what they have), and anything they don't have a lot of experience with, if any at all, is crap or bad. I don't think any of them are "bad"**.
Add to that, we are only talking about one very small and minor piece of a large puzzle here, and some are sitting there looking at all the pieces trying to get started, where others are working on trying to get the last quarter of the puzzle figured out, and I swear, every day, it seems like there's more pieces there than the day before.
The more you get out and learn things you don't know, the easier all of this gets. And I still swear, that if you learn to shoot a DA revolver, DAO well, you will be WAY ahead of those who think that this or that, usually "tuned" trigger, is the only possible trigger you can shoot well with. And if thats what you think, all you've done there is become a "specialist", and limit yourself.
** While I don't think any of the factory triggers are "bad", I do think a lot of the "tuned" or aftermarket triggers meant to improve them, are too light and dangerous for any kind of real world use, and have no place in a gun thats going to be carried or used.
As much as people seem to want to try, you cant buy skill. If you put in the time and effort with what you have to learn it, you will "improve" the parts of "you" that need the work and the gun will magically get better. Once you get there, then you can add to the pile and move on to things you don't know and keep moving forward.
the easiest pistol I've ever seen to strip and clean the firing pin channel is a CZ-70. you just activate the firing pin disconnect with say a toothpick by pushing up on it, and the firing pin comes right out. like so much easier than a beretta 92, kind of makes me wonder, since that works, why so many are just complicated. I can't barely strip a Beretta 92 without having spare pin detents or detent springs, cause it is almost impossible to take it down to clean it without shooting the detent pin to Saturn.
They stopped designing new shotguns and rifles with exposed hammers over 120 years ago for a good reason. The better question is, why do handguns with exposed hammers still exist? The striker fired design used on bolt actions has proven to be the most reliable and rugged system for long guns. Designs with the hammer enclosed such as an AR or most repeating action shotguns are second best. The moving parts are enclosed and protected.
Exposed hammers create an opening for dirt and debris to enter the action. Exposed hammers can be damaged from a fall or if dropped, debris can get between the hammer and firing pin and prevent the gun from firing. As could hair, fingers or clothing in extreme close quarters combat.
Striker fired guns CAN have triggers equal to any hammer fired gun, but since most are DAO with no manual safety they have a heavier pull to reduce unintentional discharges. But there are solutions to that problem and many newer striker fired guns now have an external 1911 style safety. Those IMO are the best of both worlds. I've owned them in the past but have no use for the more modern DA/SA designs such as the Beretta 92, Smith & Wesson designs or the Sig 226 platform.
I like my 1911's, but from a historical and nostalgic perspective. For a handgun that will be used to protect me I'll take a modern striker fired gun 10 times out of 10.
Exposed hammers create an opening for dirt and debris to enter the action. Exposed hammers can be damaged from a fall or if dropped, debris can get between the hammer and firing pin and prevent the gun from firing. As could hair, fingers or clothing in extreme close quarters combat.
Striker fired guns CAN have triggers equal to any hammer fired gun, but since most are DAO with no manual safety they have a heavier pull to reduce unintentional discharges. But there are solutions to that problem and many newer striker fired guns now have an external 1911 style safety. Those IMO are the best of both worlds. I've owned them in the past but have no use for the more modern DA/SA designs such as the Beretta 92, Smith & Wesson designs or the Sig 226 platform.
I like my 1911's, but from a historical and nostalgic perspective. For a handgun that will be used to protect me I'll take a modern striker fired gun 10 times out of 10.
FL-NC
Member
Striker fired pistols like the Glock and M&P offer excellent reliability, more so than most other handguns in my experience. They are also very easy to work on and possibilities to customize are endless. What I think I like the most is that they can be carried at the ready and quickly presented, fired, and re-holstered without a need to operate any other controls like safety buttons or decockers. There is also 1 trigger mode to master, VS 2 for a DA pistol (which must be decocked to reholster).
sparkyv
Member
Besides the weight, the lower cost is why I've jumped on the polymer gun wagon. I do still prefer DA/SA hammer-fired, but also have and enjoy a few good striker-fired handguns.
This:
This:
InTheSwamp
Member
And that's what the OP has been missing. Needed? Not really, HF pistols can be as reliable. As someone said above, it's just a different way of igniting a primer. A cheaper way.
doubleh
Member
The only one I ever really liked was a M & P in 40 caliber. It was an early one and they had the reputation of having not so great triggers but this one just happened to have a very good one. In fact it beat any of the others I have ever owned. It went to my oldest grandson when my old, over stressed for many years wrist decided it couldn't take it's snappy recoil anymore. I should have just converted it to 9mm but didn't. Dummy me and the kid won't give it back. Can't say I blame him though. The only striker fired pistol I own today is a lowly Hi-Point C-9 that was a gift to experiment with. It got some slots milled in the slide, work on the trigger get a decent pull weight although it is still mushy, and quite bit of file work on the grips to get a better profile and the addition of traction grips to make it easy to hang on to. It's still clunky and ugly but you know what? It will hang with and beat some of my other 9mm's in accuracy.
My SIL has a long slide M & P that I really like the looks of. However it is in 40 caliber too and I just shake my head when he offers it to me to shoot. The wrist deals me enough misery just doing day to day things without stirring it up with a snappy gun. Funny thing is I can do 357 in a BlackHawk with no problems due to the difference in the way each gun applies recoil.
My SIL has a long slide M & P that I really like the looks of. However it is in 40 caliber too and I just shake my head when he offers it to me to shoot. The wrist deals me enough misery just doing day to day things without stirring it up with a snappy gun. Funny thing is I can do 357 in a BlackHawk with no problems due to the difference in the way each gun applies recoil.
Tallball
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You're really not missing anything. I take it you want a range toy. You won't find a polymer striker-fired pistol that you like better than your favorite metal autos and revolvers. If you get lucky, you'll find one you like as much.
I have a bunch of polymer striker-fired full-sized pistols. I shoot the Walther PPQ as well as a 1911 or CZ75, even if I'm not quite as fond of it. The rest range from okay to very good.
NBD. Just a different frame material and firing pin apparatus. They still lock up the same and everything.
I have a bunch of polymer striker-fired full-sized pistols. I shoot the Walther PPQ as well as a 1911 or CZ75, even if I'm not quite as fond of it. The rest range from okay to very good.
NBD. Just a different frame material and firing pin apparatus. They still lock up the same and everything.
You mention the long trigger take up on Glocks. The Walther PPQ/PDP and Canik MC9 all have a longer trigger take up than my stock Glock gen 3's. There is no mushy wall on my gen 3 Glocks, in fact it is a very hard wall with no creep before crisp trigger snap. Although the Glock trigger reset might not be the shortest, it is the strongest and most tactile compared to all the polymer striker pistols. Also, the HK VP9 has a long reset, with additional movement once back after the softer wall. On my stock Glocks the reset pushes you right back to the hard wall, with no more additional movement. I once got caught up in the internet myth about stock Glock triggers and put a 3lb Timney Alpha Trigger in one of my Glocks, softer wall, no tactile reset. Took the Timney out, went back to stock, the perfect self-defense trigger. None of these stock plastic striker pistols have a custom tuned 1911 style trigger, so none of them are vastly superior to the other, just personal preference.
Hugger-4641
Member
vanfunk
Member
Hi Vindag:
I’ve just had a different experience. I find the wall on the PDP and VP9 to be far, far crisper, lighter, and more single-action like than the Glock gen 5 trigger, even with the “performance” trigger and a Ghost connector. Resets to me are so close as to make no difference, but for aimed fire, the defined wall makes a big difference in accuracy for me. Others may differ in their feelings, of course.
I’ve just had a different experience. I find the wall on the PDP and VP9 to be far, far crisper, lighter, and more single-action like than the Glock gen 5 trigger, even with the “performance” trigger and a Ghost connector. Resets to me are so close as to make no difference, but for aimed fire, the defined wall makes a big difference in accuracy for me. Others may differ in their feelings, of course.
Fair enough as its all-personal preference. The Glock Timney Alpha Trigger that I briefly had on my Glock 19 is a 3lb single action trigger, with a very short take up, very light crisp pull, short but vague reset. I didn't like it on a carry/home defense gun, so I put the stock trigger back in. I don't own a gen 5 Glock, but have shot them, and the wall is a softer rolling wall, with some creep, than the more defined hard wall/no creep of the gen 3 Glocks.
vanfunk
Member
10-4 on that! Funny additional data point on my experience: my Glock 42, which is the “cheapest” Glock and the least requiring of a good trigger for 0-5 yard shooting, has the BEST trigger by far among my others - G17, 20 and 21. Just my luck
tjmga
Member
Juat speaking for myself, I sold my Glock 23 only because of the trigger. I don't know if I could find the "wall" or any other thing. I bought a S&P because I didn't hate the trigger. After a few years of using a DA revolver as a bedside tool, because I felt safer with that if I should need it in a sleepy state. I then sold the S&P and bought P229 DA/SA. I don't have to worry about shooting myself becuause something got tangled in the trigger or my half awake finger set it off. I can't tell you how good the P229 trigger is compared to other triggers but I do know I don't want to sell it because of that awful Glock trigger.
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