A1abdj: #245 On This Thread: “Last I checked, you haven't hired me as a consultant, so that rules out the free security evaluation. Those of us who take this business seriously put the security of our customers first.”
No offense, but we would choose to hire actual mechanical engineers.
Furthermore, we have been a repair station for all brands of safes for the past 30 years, and that’s about the time you were born Frank.
A1abdj: #200 On This Thread: “Granted, this door was defeated because the boltwork is the weak link. What I want you to notice is the upper edge of the door. See that distortion? That's what I would need to do to the Sturdy to get in.”
Are you, or are you not, stating to our customers reading this thread, that they should be worried about Sturdy Safes being pried open, with a 6ft pry bar, by a thief?
Said on this thread:
Biggbay90 #33: “Frank g5931--or Sturdy 7ga--which can stop pry and ax attack or is it just the same protection with different names”
A1abdj: #36 Responds To Biggbay90: “The G5931 is going to have more steel than the Sturdy in both the body (1/4" cumulative vs. 7 gauge .1793") and the door (1/2" cumulative vs. 5/16"), and also has a cement fill….”
Biggbay90 #74: “Why they say 1 3/4 overall body construction then--12ga this--16ga that--1/2in this------i want just steel not over 1000lbs--no fire proof and good pry/ax
A1abdj: #77 Responds To Biggbay90: “I just quoted a B rate chest (just a plain safe with shelves), no insulation, for a customer that wants exactly what you're looking for. It had to be light enough to go into the house, but offer decent pry protection. It has a solid 1/2" plate door, and solid 1/4" walls. A gun safe sized unit weighs around 1,000 pounds and cost between $2,000 and $3,000 depending on dimensions.”
Sturdy Safe #244 Responds to Frank: “Frank (a1abdj) is not just educating here, he’s trying to sell a Chinese safe to a good American patriot on this thread.”
A1abdj: #245 Responds To Sturdy: “I am? I'm not trying to sell anything in this thread, let alone a Chinese safe. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?”
Your not trying to sell Biggbay90 a G5931 (which is a B-rated Chinese safe) Frank? Is that what your saying? We all know your on here selling your safes in addition to providing information. This is one of the things you do for a living.
A1abdj: #245 On This Thread: “No I didn't. I said I can open a Sturdy safe using a pry bar. I didn't say I was going to pry the door open. I have said multiple times that I didn't need to open the door with the pry bar, I only needed to make it flex a few inches.”
Like I have previously stated, Sturdy Gun Safe doors do not allow enough gap for a pry bar to get started, however,
IF you were able to get a pry bar started, we already know, with enough force, you can bend the lip of the door up. HOWEVER THIS WILL STILL NOT OPEN THE DOOR. The welding everywhere on the door is more than substantial as you can see.
It will not allow the Sturdy Safe door to flex substantially enough, and even then, you have the problem of rebound, which is the characteristic of high carbon steel. So now, the most you can hope for is to distort the top of the door opening. In that effort, you would need to realize that the top is welded to the body all the way down through the door seat on both sides of the opening. Making that connection on both sides of the pry point extremely strong. Using a 6ft pry bar, with the belief you can distort the top up, you would have to understand the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Therefore, to gain room for the distortion, you would have to stretch the steel to move it out of it’s straight line connection from one side to the other. Not to mention, the same problem would exist on the vertical parts of the door seat as well. The door itself keeps these distances from moving closer together and allowing room for the distortion. To create such a distortion, you would have to collapse the door seat formation, which took 250 tons to create. To collapse even a section of this is much harder than you think. So now, you would need to break the welds themselves just to make the attempt at such a distortion. We realize that many gun safes on the market have not analyzed potential threats with crow bars properly, but Sturdy Safe is not one of these companies. This paragraph needs more clarification, but I fear it’s already getting too long winded. For more details, please call 800-262-0023.
A1abdj: #245 On This Thread: “I haven't watched your video, but even your own customer, an engineer, who's opinion in this thread you seem to agree with, has already said (and proven with math) that it's possible.” and “Although Sturdy makes a heavier safe than most, it is certainly susceptible to pry bars. I have seen safes using much heavier steel pried open.”
Sure every engineer knows that given a leaver big enough and long enough you can move almost any weight, but can that be PRACTICALLY APPLIED to prying a Sturdy Safe? Of course not! There are problems such as pry bar thickness not being adequate. We can state that it’s impossible to go to the moon, but then you would say, yes it is possible, it’s been done before. Disregarding the practicality of actually doing it. Basically, we understand no safe is impregnable, but due to mechanical engineers, expert safe crackers, and our own vigorous testing, we are very comfortable in saying that our customers have nothing to worry about when it comes to practical pry bar attacks. You are saying otherwise still, correct?
A1abdj: #261 On This Thread: “I was happy to hear that a whole 10,000 pound stack of 5/16" could flex with the pry bar beneath it. I'm assuming this means that a single sheet of it would flex too.”
You forgot to add the word “not". The “10000lb stack of 5/16” could NOT flex” an inch, like it could have, if it was possible to do so.
A1abdj: #245 On This Thread: “If anybody here doubts me, feel free to open up your yellow pages and call a local safe company. Ask them if they have ever seen one. I understand that everybody is not in a major metro area like I am, and I probably see more than a small town guy might. B rate safes are probably the most common safe used in commercial applications, and there are plenty of business burglaries.”
Sturdy Safe took you up on your challenge to call local locksmiths. All the locksmiths said; a WELL MADE B rated safe is virtually impossible to pry open, however, there were some that had welded in door seats that could be breached by taking a sledge hammer and beating the door in. Breaking the welds that held the door seat. This however, is not just a pry bar attack. I guess thickness is not everything.
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We are not all here to argue with Frank for fun, or to advertise. We all come back here to argue with him, because he is misinforming people. Here are several different topics he needed to be corrected on so far:
1.
A1abdj: #4 On
Another Thread: "Brown doesn't built UL rated safes"
Yet Brown Mfg. needed to come on here and tell you they do.
2.
A1abdj: #2 On
Another Thread: "The reason the lighter steel of the AMSEC would offer similar brute force resistance to the thicker steel of the Sturdy 7g is because of the rigidity formed by the cement material formed between the two sheets of steel."
We called Amsec. They agreed with us that Franks statement is not true and when viewing the substance in person, you can see it‘s not true. This is in addition, to everyone else on the forum telling him it‘s not true. He was comparing our safe to an 11g body, 16 g liner Amsec gun safe. -This was discussed on this thread (#36) as well.
3.
A1abdj: #2 On
Another Thread: "The AMSEC is 10 gauge and 14 gauge. I have verified this myself with Amsec at a level above the customer service reps that answer the phones."
After 4 people corrected you saying it was really an 11g body and 16g liner, you go on to state;
A1abdj: #35 On
Another Thread:"I have not verified this, but according to somebody else I know in the business, they have a cut away model that states they are now 11 gauge.”
Which we know for a fact now, you were wrong again.
4.
A1abdj: #318 On This Thread, and
other threads “As I have stated in previous threads, the smaller BF safes, built in an almost identical fashion as their gun safes, carry a UL fire rating“.
His point being, the bf gun safes must be just as good in a fire as the smaller UL fire rated BF safes, right? Wrong. This is entirely incorrect and very misleading. The smaller UL Fire rated bf safes use Vermiculite mix, which Amsec says performs better in a fire compared to the dry light used in their bf gun safes. In addition, their wall thicknesses differ. We called Amsec, and they agreed with us that what Frank stated is not true.
5.
A1abdj: #159 On This Thread- “I can generate 10,000 pounds of force on a big pry bar.“
Even though, we proved you cannot do this with a pry bar that’s actually capable of being used on a Sturdy Gun Safe.
6.
A1abdj: #245 On This Thread- “I said I can open a Sturdy safe using a pry bar.”
Even though you will not say how you would do it, so we can debunk you.
7. Amongst other debates....-Discussed on other threads and this one.
Thank you for all your calls, and private messages regarding this. Thank you to those on this thread who speak up. We get so busy I wish I could respond sooner.
That is too funny. You can clearly see the metal torn up and ending at a point. And the shadows? And the color? Man I don't even think I want to get into this one this is so off the wall.
