Soldier0117
Member
Does anyone know of some good jhp. rds. for a .45 that are supersonic? I figure if you took a big .45 bullet and made it supersonic it would be one of the most excellent defensive rounds.
Show me a FBI-protocol terminal ballistics test of any of the loads listed that reliably penetrated past 12" and consistently expanded and that started with a muzzle velocity over 1200fps (a reasonable threshhold value for reliably supersonic, given the fact that each load listed will have actual shot-to-shot velocity variations). Do that, and I'll accept that bullet technology has improved to the point where my first concern has been made moot. Of course, you still are shooting overpressure rounds, but you're certainly free to do so as long as your pistol will hold out.
All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.
DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"
You cannot get a 45ACP round to be reliably supersonic without making the bullet so light as to be unusable, given the pressure limitations of the chambering.
If it could be done, it would have been.
A 65gr bullet out of a .45acp???? Blasphemy!
I've got no problem with the lighter loads but man, a 68 grain bullet? No way. I'll stick with the old tried and true.
The fast/light 185gr 45ACP +P load doesn't meet the FBI protocol for barrier penetration; only a single example of a 4-denin gel test.Since when is 165-185 too light to work when it is heavier than all 9mm loads and most .40 loads? Are they too light to work too? The lighter loads seem to meet FBIs criteria.
The SAAMI spec pressures for 45ACP are about HALF those of 40S&W and 357 Sig and others. That's why the loadings that purport to achieve transonic/supersonic performance out of the 45ACP are all labelled '+P' - they significantly exceed the standard 45ACP pressure ratings.The argument they are too light to work doesn't hold water. +P 45 loads don't even approach the 40,000 psi that the .40 operates at. Are the laws of physics different for .45s than they are for 9mm/40/357s??
This is what I said. I didn't say that you couldn't find examples of supersonic/transonic loadings - just that they would not operate within standard SAAMI specs for the 45ACP chambering and would likely not meet the FBI test protocol (bare gel, clothed gel, and barrier penetration).Anyone can load a load to higher-than-spec pressure ranges, call it +P and achieve transonic velocities. But my contention remains that the effectiveness of those projectiles is questionable due to their light weight, and you have clearly exceeded the standard pressure ratings for the chambering.
As Platt crawled through the passenger side window, one of Dove’s 9mm bullets hit his right upper arm, just above the inside crook of the elbow. According to Dr. Anderson, the bullet passed under the bone, through the deltoid, triceps and teres major muscles, and severed the brachial arteries and veins. The bullet exited the inner side of his upper arm near the armpit, penetrated his chest between the fifth and sixth ribs, and passed almost completely through the right lung before stopping. The bullet came to a rest about an inch short of penetrating the wall of the heart.
Are the laws of physics different for .45s than they are for 9mm/40/357s?? ~jon in wv
The transonic region (.8-1.2 Mach) introduces unpredictable buffeting onto the object in flight. Bullets are no exception.It was stated that there is some strange aerodynamic effect on a 185 grain bullet out of a 45 that would make it inaccurate.
Strangely, the 44 Magnum burns a lot more powder under far greater pressures than the 45ACP to drive its bullet at speeds well in excess of Mach 1.2, and therefore avoids the transsonic effects within normal handgun shootin' ranges.Strangely though a 180 grain bullet at even faster speeds is plenty accurate out of a 44 magnum?
And that's terrific. You are happy, and that's cool. But your arguing with my assertation that said:Also, the question never was whether or not the loads would meet the FBIs protocol. Several of the loads mentioned expand reliably and penetrate reliably past 12-14 inches. Thats working well in my book.
All of the huffing and puffing since then has done absolutely NOTHING to demonstrate my point to be invalid. Your reference loads clearly and significantly exceed the SAAMI standards. Your reference loads are, as best I can tell, also not capable of meeting the FBI testing protocol standard, which (like it or not) is a perfectly valid and accepted test regimen for evaluating the terminal performance of a bullet....my contention remains that the effectiveness of those projectiles is questionable due to their light weight, and you have clearly exceeded the standard pressure ratings for the chambering.
I didn't ignore it - I didn't realize it was a question. The concept is called Sectional Density (SD), and it's one of the primary factors in determining bullet penetration.also ignored the question of why 185 grains is a "light" bullet when its a heavy bullet in a gun with a .05" smaller diameter and its too heavy to even load in 9mm
Does anyone know of some good jhp. rds. for a .45 that are supersonic? I figure if you took a big .45 bullet and made it supersonic it would be one of the most excellent defensive rounds.
After sustaining this wound, Platt continued to fire for several minutes and scored significant hits on FBI agents.
Penetration is key, and a fast/expanding bullet failed to penetrate to the heart due to hitting Platt's arm first.