Suppressor should not cost this much!

[JDeere]

Exactly why I have not pursued one. 700 for suppressor,200 for stamp and no telling how much to thread my rifle barrel. Will then have to work up new loads. I got good hearing protection that works just fine.
Someone mentioned hearing aids. To late already have them. Get a new pair every 3 years through insurance...ymmv

 

[MachIVshooter]

After getting my supressor from Silencer Central. My review on the experience…

* * * Supressors should not cost $950 + $100 in adaptors ****

Only our largest titanium rifle cans are that high. The rest are in the $330-$680 range.

Manufacturing in general is a very expensive type of business to run, and there are a number of other factors driving the cost of suppressors in the USA. Many have already been touched on.

Materials are a small part of the cost, usually not more than about 10%.

Of course R&D has to be amortized over units sold, and this industry just doesn't have the economy of scale like AR15s. Lots of R&D involves buying host weapons and other manufacturer's products. We have tons of firearms, cans, adapters, muzzle devices, etc. that we didn't want personally. I don't like Glocks or AKs, but we have them for testing & demonstrating. I don't use any other manufacturer's muzzle devices, but we own a pile of them for developing adapters and checking fitment.

As a very small manufacturer, we have well over a half million in equipment that we bought used with cash. You could quadruple that if we'd bought new on credit.

Consumables like carbide inserts, blades, twist drills, taps, chemicals, coolants, etc. are over $100k/yr.

Licensure, DDTC registration, SOT, insurance are about $18k annually for us.

Website and advertising costs are not insignificant.

The list goes on.....


I probably pay myself less annually than most of you here make, and I average 62 hour work weeks. I live in a modest house and my daily driver is a 2000 Dodge Durango with a quarter million miles. I don't want sympathy, I love what I do, and would make a change if I needed more revenue. And there are perks aside from having as many cans as I want for cost of materials and my time. Just pointing out that most of us are not getting wealthy manufacturing suppressors, despite the relatively high cost of the products.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Exactly why I have not pursued one. 700 for suppressor,200 for stamp and no telling how much to thread my rifle barrel. Will then have to work up new loads. I got good hearing protection that works just fine.
Someone mentioned hearing aids. To late already have them. Get a new pair every 3 years through insurance...ymmv

get the suppressor in your hands, unscrew the cap, and watch a bunch of spacers fall out. … and you are like “that’s it” ???

tell you what… it’s for people who got $$$$ to boot!

 

[Englishmn]

Having had to use the manufacturer warranty I can just pretend it's half price now.

 

[MachIVshooter]

get the suppressor in your hands, unscrew the cap, and watch a bunch of spacers fall out. … and you are like “that’s it” ???

tell you what… it’s for people who got $$$$ to boot!

While there have been production cans with simple cones or flat baffles & spacers, most of us do not build them this way.

Our serviceable models, which are the rimfire critters, our Cheetah .32 cal and our Phoenix IX & Phoenix XLV pistol cans have titanium tubes with interlocking skirted 17-4 H900 stainless baffles, and the standoffs for the blast baffles are integrated into mount/booster housing, not a separate spacer.





Our TLX, Phoenix TL, Caracal and all rifle models are fully welded tubeless suppressors made of 17-4 stainless or 6Al-4V titanium

 

[Mark_Mark]

While there have been production cans with simple cones or flat baffles & spacers, most of us do not build them this way.

Our serviceable models, which are the rimfire critters, our Cheetah .32 cal and our Phoenix IX & Phoenix XLV pistol cans have titanium tubes with interlocking skirted 17-4 H900 stainless baffles, and the standoffs for the blast baffles are integrated into mount/booster housing, not a separate spacer.

View attachment 1181774

View attachment 1181776

Our TLX, Phoenix TL, Caracal and all rifle models are fully welded tubeless suppressors made of 17-4 stainless or 6Al-4V titanium

View attachment 1181775

View attachment 1181777

I’ve always like your designs!

I hope investors are looking at your company and you can trade in the Darago for a Corvette!

 

[LocoGringo]

I agree, WAY OVERPRICED for what you actually get! Which is why I don't own a suppressor even though I would like to. To me it seems stupid that suppressors are controlled in the first place! A really stupid law that does absolutely nothing to protect the public from violence.

All true, and yet that's the reality of the situation, so it's either 1) deal with it and add the accessory to your firearm to protect your hearing and reduce recoil or 2) don't get one and use other means to protect your hearing and deal with the recoil.

For my part, I thoroughly enjoy my suppressors and while it's absolutely ridiculous that I have to pay so much money and wait up to a year to possess my personal property that I have paid for, I deal with it and hope that the legislation passes to remove suppressors from the NFA. I will NOT hold my breath on the legislation though.

 

[Show Me]

Yeah… a got a useless paper from a college say Manufacturing Engineering

but you really learn everything in the field. Tell you what… I works in Semiconductor Fabrication background and we did way more involved manufacturing and the end product didn’t cost as much as a suppressor (sepcalizing in High Vacuum plasma etching and metrology… But that was decades ago

Spelling like dat you must have been given a partisapation award.

 

[Show Me]

After getting my supressor from Silencer Central. My review on the experience…

* * * Supressors should not cost $950 + $100 in adaptors ****

They should be as common as recoil pads. Should be priced like scopes. Good ,better, best. My closest neighbors are a 1/4 away but they would kick in on one

 

[CapnMac]

The fact that guys like @MachIVshooter have to build the cans within the extremely limited envelope NFA allows for repairs means that US-legal cans have to be more than casually well-built. And that sort of thing costs money, considerable dosh. Along with the considerable skill of the manufacturer.

And, because the skills are some high up there, it means the precision of the machined bits inside can look deceptively simple, flimsy, even. Except that they aren't.

And, really, there's not a huge technical hurdle in building an 80% good-enough can. Hiram Maxim was making cans out of brazed sheet steel about the same time as the Model T Ford came on the market.

The modern can, where gas flow has been modeled and mapped and researched to death has about a century of engineering behind it.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Spelling like dat you must have been given a partisapation award.

4.5 years at a 2 year college! best time of my life

wooooo weeee

 

[Mark_Mark]

They should be as common as recoil pads. Should be priced like scopes. Good ,better, best. My closest neighbors are a 1/4 away but they would kick in on one

I would perfer the cheap mono core, steel, weight don’t matter. Size doesn’t matter either

 

[Show Me]

4.5 years at a 2 year college! best time of my life

wooooo weeee

Ha. I got one of those two year digrees and work in the same room I started in. Same job since 81. I'm not a good example

 

[Mark_Mark]

Ha. I got one of those two year digrees and work in the same room I started in. Same job since 81. I'm not a good example

I knew I was not smart enough… 5years working and became a photographer insisted!

 

[MachIVshooter]

They should be as common as recoil pads. Should be priced like scopes. Good ,better, best. My closest neighbors are a 1/4 away but they would kick in on one

And they are in countries where they do not have a $200 tax and several months wait associated with each one.

If they were cash-and-carry, you'd see lots of inexpensive & basically disposable cans made of mild steels and 6061 aluminum. They've existed here, but have never done well because that $150 can with tax & transfer fees is now a $400+ can, so most would rather throw another few hundred down on a lifetime investment.

We also beat on them a lot harder than civilians in most other countries. In the UK, being rated for full auto rifle fire from short barrels is simply not a concern, as those weapons are restricted to LE/government only. Their rifle suppressors are going on manual action guns. But here, the reality is that a 5.56 suppressor is likely to see many thousands of rounds and temperatures well in excess of 1,000°F with flame front, blast debris & pressure from barrels as short as 7.5". The aluminum hunting suppressors sold in England likely wouldn't survive 2 mag dumps on a shorty AR. We have pictures floating around of Form 1 cans guys built with aluminum and tried them on semi auto rifles; some ended up with shotgun size apertures in short order, others just self-destructed.

Most of the suppressors across the pond are also quite large, where we have a preoccupation with making them ever-smaller and lighter here but don't want to give up performance. It's easy to make a mongaloid can suppress well, takes a lot more engineering & development with a lot better materials to get respectable rifle suppression out of something similar in size to a salt shaker. Like CapnMac said, the geometry of the parts that accomplish this may seem simple, but there is a reason behind each feature, a reason a radius is a certain size in a certain location, and holding tolerances that are often as tight as .001" or .002" in tough materials like titanium, 630 stainless, inconel, etc. means slower production and more frequent tool replacement than sloppy common hardware or plumbing part tolerances in easy machining materials. I'll have to replace a 2-sided carbide grooving insert about every 12-14 baffles cutting from 1.625" 6-4 Ti because the surface finish and tolerance requirements dictate a light, high-surface speed finish pass in a material that quickly burnishes edges doing that. In aluminum with +/- .005 tolerances, I could cut hundreds upon hundreds on one edge, and do it at 8 times the speed.

CapnMac is also correct that building a decently effective suppressor is not terribly difficult. The feat of engineering is in that last 20% of performance coupled with minimal weight & external dimensions while still being tough. Put together a "d cell" sized (1.5"x 8 or so and around 18-20 ounces with booster) suppressor for 9mm with a bunch of basic 60° clipped cones, it'll do OK. Matching or exceeding that performance in something the size of our 1.3 x 6.5" TLX that weighs 4 ounces takes a bit more know-how, equipment and precision.

 

[shoobe01]

If there were no NFA, a suppressor with premium materials due to economies of scale, demand and lack of governmental regulation would be in the $400-500 range if not cheaper.

Especially, as more and more manufacturers are going towards 3D printing suppressors and muzzle devices. Primary Weapons is one such example.

This, ish. Haven't looked lately but suppressors in much of the world (where they are accessories, over the counter as long as you are allowed to have a gun) are half price they are here or cheaper.

Not just compliance — time it takes to file paperwork, track everything, carrying costs because inventory is a PITA etc — but because with the paperwork you would be annoyed if it broke or wore out quickly. So they are a bit overbuilt here so the paperwork and stamp cost is worth it.

 

[Show Me]

Someone is making a killing off these tubes with spacers!

and I’ll probably buy more and complain about the cost

A six 51348 costs me 8$ . then the adapter

 

[Mark_Mark]

A six 51348 costs me 8$ . then the adapter

what? lol

 

[ericuda]

Machiv that is a work of art and weights nothing looks like. If I was a long range or strictly target shooting that is a very good investment and I'm sure worth it. One day I might invest in one.

 

[Show Me]

Yep it is what it is. A young fella that works for me. Ya we found one that shows up anyway. Did the waiting and all that. An adapter that's a muzzle break too. What ever it had to be timed. It's cool and awesome but the whole deal is like caving in to the man. I'm not begging them for the permission to buy one. I'll just make noise. That's called fuddy duddy I suppose. Your simple statement has been entertaining.

 

[Show Me]

what? lol

Sorry ,a wix oil filter.

 

[Buzznrose]

And they are in countries where they do not have a $200 tax and several months wait associated with each one.

If they were cash-and-carry, you'd see lots of inexpensive & basically disposable cans made of mild steels and 6061 aluminum. They've existed here, but have never done well because that $150 can with tax & transfer fees is now a $400+ can, so most would rather throw another few hundred down on a lifetime investment.

We also beat on them a lot harder than civilians in most other countries. In the UK, being rated for full auto rifle fire from short barrels is simply not a concern, as those weapons are restricted to LE/government only. Their rifle suppressors are going on manual action guns. But here, the reality is that a 5.56 suppressor is likely to see many thousands of rounds and temperatures well in excess of 1,000°F with flame front, blast debris & pressure from barrels as short as 7.5". The aluminum hunting suppressors sold in England likely wouldn't survive 2 mag dumps on a shorty AR. We have pictures floating around of Form 1 cans guys built with aluminum and tried them on semi auto rifles; some ended up with shotgun size apertures in short order, others just self-destructed.

Most of the suppressors across the pond are also quite large, where we have a preoccupation with making them ever-smaller and lighter here but don't want to give up performance. It's easy to make a mongaloid can suppress well, takes a lot more engineering & development with a lot better materials to get respectable rifle suppression out of something similar in size to a salt shaker. Like CapnMac said, the geometry of the parts that accomplish this may seem simple, but there is a reason behind each feature, a reason a radius is a certain size in a certain location, and holding tolerances that are often as tight as .001" or .002" in tough materials like titanium, 630 stainless, inconel, etc. means slower production and more frequent tool replacement than sloppy common hardware or plumbing part tolerances in easy machining materials. I'll have to replace a 2-sided carbide grooving insert about every 12-14 baffles cutting from 1.625" 6-4 Ti because the surface finish and tolerance requirements dictate a light, high-surface speed finish pass in a material that quickly burnishes edges doing that. In aluminum with +/- .005 tolerances, I could cut hundreds upon hundreds on one edge, and do it at 8 times the speed.

CapnMac is also correct that building a decently effective suppressor is not terribly difficult. The feat of engineering is in that last 20% of performance coupled with minimal weight & external dimensions while still being tough. Put together a "d cell" sized (1.5"x 8 or so and around 18-20 ounces with booster) suppressor for 9mm with a bunch of basic 60° clipped cones, it'll do OK. Matching or exceeding that performance in something the size of our 1.3 x 6.5" TLX that weighs 4 ounces takes a bit more know-how, equipment and precision.

Brother, I’m gonna make it a point to buy my next can from you if I can figure out how. I guess I’ll order it through a LGS? Or should I use Capitol Armory in Austin?

Probably won’t be until
Sometime this Spring, but I really like this one for my Ruger PCC
https://www.eccomachine.net/product/tlx/

 

[Soonerpesek]

A six 51348 costs me 8$ . then the adapter

Sorry ,a wix oil filter.

Prolly cost a lot more than that if you get caught...................and only good for a shot or two.........................and it's heavy and awkward........................and...................................................

 

[BreechFace]

Brother, I’m gonna make it a point to buy my next can from you if I can figure out how. I guess I’ll order it through a LGS? Or should I use Capitol Armory in Austin?

Probably won’t be until
Sometime this Spring, but I really like this one for my Ruger PCC
https://www.eccomachine.net/product/tlx/

You should his stuff is quality!

 

[MikeInOr]

it it was like $350 for a quality supressor, would you pull the trigger?

Yes!

$1000 is to much to blow only to find out I should have gotten a bigger one, smaller one, longer one, shorter one, heavier one, lighter one or completely different design. Every compressor has some unique technology which makes it the "best compressor ever made", it is hard to even know where to start.

Which suppressor did you purchase? What caliber?