Swiss argument may be lacking from your argument soon

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coyote_jr

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http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2709342,00.html?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf

Switzerland Considers Gun Control
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Every Swiss man serves in the army
Switzerland's the only country that requires its soldiers to keep guns at home. But concerns over high suicide rates and killings within families have caused some to ask whether having them there is simply too dangerous.

All Swiss men must do military service -- they all learn to shoot -- and when they go home, they take their assault rifles and 50 rounds of ammunition with them.

"For me it's just routine," said Philippe Schaub, heading home after his latest stint in the army. "We all do military service, we're all given a gun to take home. I keep it in my cupboard just like the coats and the snowboard and the vacuum cleaner."

The idea is to have an army ready for call up anytime. Although neutral Switzerland hasn't fought a war for centuries, Christoph Keckeis, chief of the armed forces, said he sees no reason for change.

"The policy is that every single soldier has his weapon at home, a pistol or a gun," Keckeis said.

Trust in the citizenry

"This is a very robust tradition," he added. "We do have enormous confidence in our men, we know they are well-educated, and we are 100 percent sure that they know how to deal with this weapon and the ammunition."

But not everyone shares that confidence. Tanja Vollenweider had a happy family life until four years ago. She and her husband had just bought a new house. He was between jobs, so they had a few money worries, but not, she thought, big ones.




Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Switzerland has high rates of suicide
"It was a normal, happy day, we had taken the kids to the zoo, we had people to dinner in the evening;" Vollenweider said. "In the middle of the night my daughter woke me -- she said my husband had run out of the house with his army gun. I tried to run after him, but I was too late."

Vollenweider's husband killed himself.

High rates of suicide, domestic violence

The only country with a higher rate of suicide with guns than Switzerland is the United States. And it's not just suicide: every month or so, a Swiss man turns his gun on his family. The country has the highest rate of domestic violence using guns in Europe.

"These deaths that are happening, these slaughters, these murders, are terrible, but there's much more to the problem than that," said Sabin Bieri, a professor of gender politics at the University of Berne who is part of a growing campaign to get the guns out of Swiss homes. "The weapon is a constant threat in family life in Switzerland, which I think is such a terrible thing for many women and many children."

A threat to Swiss masculinity?

But it's hard to challenge tradition. Learning to use a gun has been a rite of passage for young Swiss men for centuries.


Keckeis sees proposals to take the guns away as a threat to the masculinity of his troops.

"They will really be taken as unserious men," he said. "It would be a sign that we don't have confidence in them any more, after being so confident for many years, and they would be really lost. It would be a signal that the political power in Switzerland is no longer confident in its armed forces and in its population."

Subject to referendum

Those political considerations aren't much comfort to Tanja Vollenweider. She's convinced she would still have her husband if the gun hadn't been so readily available.




Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Introducing gun control would have to be decided by referendum
"This only happened because the gun was right here at home," she said. "My husband wouldn't have gone out looking for one. If the gun hadn't been here I think he'd still be alive."

Little by little, there are signs that the Swiss may be ready for change: this summer, left-wing parties will launch plans for a nationwide referendum to force the army to take the weapons away.

The process will take a while but the current generation of new conscripts may be among the last to take their guns home with them.


Well, we may have to find some new facts for our daily rants:rolleyes:
 
Sure we'll lose the "Swiss Argument" for a time.

However, just like Australia and the UK, we'll have the "Swiss Argument" back in our arsenal. It'll just be a different version of the "Swiss Argument". And the Swiss will bear the cost.

If Armed Society is Polite Society, Disarmed Society is?...
 
Yes, because the availability of guns is the only reason why suicide rates are higher [/sarcasm]



Maybe someone should point out to them that Japan, which is almost completely disarmed, has a suicide rate over twice that of the United States?


Guns have nothing to do with suicide rates; that's why suicide statistics with guns are for the most part ignored (at least by rational people). The rate of suicide has most to do with culture, not with available means to achieve it; someone who is intent on ending their life will accomplish it with or without a gun.
 
Here's some real data. Suicide rates among first-world nations don't correlate whatsoever with the availability of firearms.

gnpsuicide.gif


http://www.mcdl.org/Stats/gnpsuicide.htm
 
"Sabin Bieri, a professor of gender politics"

"left-wing parties"

No news here. The left, as usual, are attacking personal liberty, and the press, as usual, are aiding and abetting.
 
Yep. Give them five years of ''gun freedom'' and we will have an excellent argument. If the pattern holds true crime will rise freedom will diminish and people will complain with a neutered tone of voice.
 
rate of suicide with guns

Switzerland and the US both have very low suicide rates. The reason that "suicide with guns" doesn't show this is because most of the high suicide nations also have very strict gun control so people kill themselves in other ways. Of course, an essay promoting gun control doesn't care about stopping suicide, they care about promoting gun control.

For a laugh, take a look at the murder and suicide stats for European countries that aren't part of "western europe." The former soviet bloc countries have astronomical rates of suicide and murder despite decades of strictly enforced gun control under the communists.
 
It's a grieving wife looking for something to blame. The husband didn't commit suicide, the gun killed him. At least that is what she is telling herself right now.

Sound like an economic problem, a mental health problem, or a social services problem. It is most assuredly not a gun problem.
 
They are "given" 2 sealed boxes of ammo to take home that they must maintain at all times. However, they can go out and buy as much as the want. They can shoot the rifle using their own ammo at anytime, but with the 2 sealed boxes, there is a guarantee that every household in switzerland has a battle-ready rifle.

c2k
 
The only country with a higher rate of suicide with guns than Switzerland is the United States.

That didn't sound right when I read it. I knew for a fact that Japan had higher then the USA. Thought they were the highest till I saw the chart above. Sounds like a reporter didn't check his facts...as if I would be surprised about that.
 
The key is "with guns." You see, a suicide without a firearm isn't really a suicide. Just like a murder with a knife is far better than a murder with a firearm.

Switzerland is hardly the only place in the world with liberal firearms laws. But it's still sad to see a proud nation losing through left wing agitprop what no European army had been able to take for very long. With the loss of arms it won't be long before Switzerland melts away into the EU like a bit of rich alpine butter in a dirty frying pan. Next up will be their "racist" system for accepting new citizens, which will be replaced by open borders for all North African comers. Then the banking system will be brought to heel. The country will ultimately be no more than a little vacation spot with no particular national identity.
 
"It was a normal, happy day, we had taken the kids to the zoo, we had people to dinner in the evening;" Vollenweider said. "In the middle of the night my daughter woke me -- she said my husband had run out of the house with his army gun. I tried to run after him, but I was too late."

Vollenweider's husband killed himself.

It was a normal, happy day? I think someone isn't seeing reality. Her husband didn't just, "all of a sudden," decide he'd grab his battle rifle and blow his head off. Maybe he'd had enough of the Swiss style of "happiness" or maybe there was no discernible reason at all...

Whatever the case you don't build your political system on personal trauma. At least you didn't before the modern age of liberalism.

While Europe is getting more and more "civilized," their enemies are gathering.
 
Maybe SHE was feeling normal and happy. (Maybe she wants to share her medicine cabinet?)

Perhaps HE was feeling like there was no other way out of a marriage where his wife was willfully oblivious to his emotional state.

Suicide is very sad. I'm by no means minimizing it. I've been through more than my share of grief this year.

However, the idea that someone with children just up and shoots himself when everything is going great is way too much for someone with any critical thinking skills whatsoever to believe.
 
The only country with a higher rate of suicide with guns than Switzerland is the United States.

I know for a fact that Japan has a higher rate of suicide than the US and Japan has more stringent gun laws.

More miss-information. WHen the average person (aka one who isn't as pro gun as us) reads this they start to correlate guns with suicide. Then they want to ban all guns because it is the right thing to do. This is as much of a public relations war as anything else.
 
I know for a fact that Japan has a higher rate of suicide than the US and the have stringent gun laws.

Note the graph I posted above.

Of First World nations, Switzerland is lower than some, higher than some.

The US is second lowest.

For some reason the Dutch are lower than us. Perhaps the ready availability of beer that you can't read a newspaper through helps.
 
Give them five years of ''gun freedom'' and we will have an excellent argument. If the pattern holds true crime will rise

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think a gun with separate ammo in a sealed box is much of a deterrent to crime. Sure, they can buy their own ammo and keep the weapon loaded, but not everyone does that. I think the effect on crime would be more subdued.

If they started regulating the private ownership of all firearms, then we might start to see some more dramatic effects.
 
I wonder if the Swiss would ever willingly give up their arms.

If you follow some of the SHTF threads around here, you will inevitably read some posts about how orderly and willingly the Americans would give up their arms.

If that be the case, I'm sure the Swiss would happily fall over themselves to hand in their weapons.
 
Well, we may have to find some new facts for our daily rants

I am not sure that I like your tone.

Even if the following equation were proved to be true:

more guns = more crime + more suicide + more mental anguish + (fill in the blanks)

it wouldn't change a RIGHT. Human beings have a God given right to self-defense.

Fortunately, at least here in the USA, those states that have the most freedom when it comes to arms have the best stats. But, even if that wasn't true it doesn't negate freedom.
 
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