Tactical Video Games

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1911_Mitch

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Just wondering if anyone uses any video games to sharpen their tactical skills.

I have played the most recent version of SWAT4 and it is VERY realistic. Player can customize scenario with number and types of civilians and goons. Map scenarios and graphics are very good.

I think these types of scenario games could really help improve ones tactical skills. Kind of like a home version of the "shoot / no-shoot" that LEOs train on. You must clear rooms and buildings, scan, crouch, use tactical light, reload, slice the pie, avoid fatal tunnels, use support equipment, can transition to pistol, etc, etc,.... This is all the same stuff you'd have to think about in the real thing.

Check it out of you have a fast computer. There is a free download version (one customizable mission map) for SWAT4 here:
http://www.swat4.com/us/download1.html
 
um..

well...

paintball would probably be better.

that said -

i did learn something from playing games.

just one.

the guy who knows the battlefield best will most likely win (given equal armament and relativey equal ability).

so...

know your house like the back of your hand! in the dark! barefoot!
 
You must clear rooms and buildings, scan, crouch, use tactical light, reload, slice the pie, avoid fatal tunnels, use support equipment, can transition to pistol, etc, etc,.... This is all the same stuff you'd have to think about in the real thing.
Click to expand...

Eh...no.
None of those things translate accurately from a video game to real life.
And out of curiosity, what, exactly, makes a light tactical?
 
I've been playing first person shooters since wolfenstein and they all teach you things. The question is whether these things are applicable in the real world.

I find that many tactical FPSes played against other people tend to deviate significantly from reality in the name of game balance and implementability. For example, making a 308 caliber rifle only slightly more powerful than a handgun or a 223. Often a realistic set of weapons will produce situations in which everyone will use only 1 or 2 weapons and ignore the rest. This is because many games are limited by their engines- for example, counterstrike is based off a graphical engine that doesnt do wide open spaces very well, but can do a decent job of corridors and buildings. This results in most encounters taking place under 100 meters on a good day.

They also tend to reward those who best understand the game mechanics. Since everything is an approximation of reality, and a selective one at that, you can profit immensely from understanding this instead of having real world knowledge. This can include ballistics (if any), how recoil is simulated, wall and barrier penetration, the power of the weapons, etc etc.

The only game I ever played that came close to reality was Operation Flashpoint, which was generally boring to play if you died early on, but incredible otherwise. It simulated weapons, ballistics, camoflague, vehicles, everything nearly perfectly. Even more recent games havent provided as gigantic a playing field.

Lessons I've learned from playing video games that are likely applicable in real life?
  • That staying in one place and trying to ambush people that know you are there will get you killed. They are a moving target, you are a stationary target, they will have an easier time hitting you than you will hitting them. Once you ambush someone, move to a new hiding spot. This is probably less applicable in real life (where people dont respawn and remember how they died), but the bodies of their allies will probably make a great tipoff as to what happened.
  • The more time you present yourself as a target when running from one place to another, the more likely someone is to notice you and hit you.
  • Staying still when in combat is a death sentence. Stationary targets are easy to hit. Movement turns an assured headshot into a slim chance of a torso hit.
  • Attacking the enemy will advertise your location to them. Only attack when you can defeat them or when you can flee without getting killed. Knowing the difference between concealment and cover is important.
 
Here we go again. It wasn't all that long ago since we went down this road:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146434

Here is the truth. Playing is not training. Training is hard work. If you could really learn how to be a super special forces ninja death dealing door kicking super soldier by playing first person shooter games, we'd close all the military bases and buy playstation 2s for our military and I wouldn't be trying to get the railroad to donate some used ties so we can build a shoot house for the county Tac Team.....

Jeff
 
I feel it accustoms you to making quick decisions and reacting under stress. Freezing up is no way to win anything.

There are scientific studies which show it improves brain function. I don't think stupid people are winners. Whiners maybe, but not winners.


For example this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050609234142.htm

Seems they do possess an edge over non-gamers. According to the linked article it is 1/10th of a second.
 
While not entirely relevant, I found Full Spectrum Warrior to be very realistic. You take control of two three-man army squads in a middle eastern urban setting. It's not a first person shooter, so you don't actually shoot things. Instead you order fire arcs and fire types. The entire game centres around making the best use of cover, choosing the appropriate type of action, and denying the enemy the use of cover.

They use a modified version of the game as a training aid for the marines.
 
No i play them for fun Halo for space invaders and Doom 3 for well other invaders then dont forget resident evil for zombie invaders
 
Having played first person shooters I don't consider video games to be a good substitute for training. They are intendeded to be entertainment and as such are not focused on teaching skills. They also lack the essential action/review cycle required of training.
 
So, just what is the best caliber for Imp? I'm thinking .30-06, but I bet you could do it with .22 LR, it's all about shot placement. :D

~GnSx
"Mo' dakka, mo' betta." ~Orky saying
 
I play BF2 just for the heck of it every now and then. The "reality" of the game is enough to raise your bloodpressure!!! Ie. having the sights of your PKM set center mass at 20 feet and not killing the guy!:cuss: :banghead:
 
I feel it accustoms you to making quick decisions and reacting under stress. Freezing up is no way to win anything.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't think video game stress is the same as "oh ???? I'm going to die right now" stress. There is no respawning in real life.
 
video games are no kind of training at all imo.

people take crazy risks, there are no ricochets/spraying peices of concrete, they involve weapons no civilian will fight with or against (flashbangs, grenades, fullauto rifles, etc)
. if im in a video game and im down to "12 health points", from taking a few 9mm to the legs and lower torso, i can still move, see straight, think straight etc. in real life you would most likely be on the floor crying like a baby.
Also, how many people, in real life, would jump around a corner with a spraying ak-47 just to get a few kills before their next "death"... nobody (well, maybe some allah worshiper).
real life gunfights are much slower paced and people use cover for long periods of time, as there is no round time limit.
 
You guys should look up the Unreal Tournament mod Infiltration.
Literally the most realistic FPS ever.

Oh, hey, Waddya know, I gots a link in my sig. ^.^
 
Yes, perhaps it's "more real" than another game, but it's still not real. You're still sitting on your butt in a chair, with a keyboard and mouse or console controller.
 
Games can teach concepts, but they can't train you. Training requires going through the motions and attuning your mind and body to whatever scenario you're training for. That's why the Army uses stuff like Full Spectrum Warrior as a training aid, not training itself.

Don't get me wrong, games are fun and I enjoy them. They aren't real life. And if you talk to gamers, many of them are as anti-gun as you can get.
 
i've been playing Medal of Honor Rising Sun this weekend. I beat it once, but decided to give it another go.

I shot this Japanese Shoulder at least 4 times with the Springfield '03 and he kept coming back for more!

1st Shot - Head shot, knocked his helmet off

2nd Shot - COM...staggered for a few seconds and then started shooting again

3rd Shot - Leg Shot - started jumping up and down on one leg, resumed shooting

4th Shot - FINALLY PUT HIM DOWN...another COM shot.

HMMMM......
 
Play FEAR.

It incorporates levels of realism that are certainly major improvements on any game before. Interactive environment, like cratering walls/floors, enemies smart enough to move furinture around for cover and cover and move under bases of fire. after a few shots into a wall, and the dust/smoke is so thick you can't see. You move very poorly if hit, and die right after. Very creepy/fun to play. You must try it, it freaked me out. But...
...ABSOLUTELY NO TRAINING VALUE!
I've been into paintball for a few years, and have played serious 24hr scenarios with overwhelming success, and even THAT was no training value. (Paintballs don't penetrate sheetrock, for example.)
Time in the sandbox was the only training tool to prepare me for time in the sandbox. First trip, not good. Second trip, not as bad. Simple as that. Next trip will hopeully be better, and shorter. The only really good training I ever had was at Blackwater, and it was great, but didn't get us ready for the things one can't train to, like exploding watermelons, and roadkill, and what 7.62x39 does to clay homes. There is no hiding from real gunfire, and the only solution is to CORRECT the problem, because what you think is cover isn't, it's just temporary concealment.
Train simple things, like shoot from cover if you can find it, and reload on the move. Set up targets behind soft cover, and watch what happens to them when you shoot up the cover. We now set up manequins behind out target backstop, and then shoot the targets, and go and look at the manequin. Horrible, really, how fast concrete block becomes swiss cheese and bricks become piles of crumbs. One magazine of 62gn steel core penetrator ammo, and the wall is totally compromised. 7.62 linked is even worse, as you can imagine. Marksmanship and moving fast are the two biggest winners on the battlefield. Plus helicopter gunships, but that's hard to train to also. :)
Steve.
 
Does everyone here respect the Marine Corps and how they train?
Well, back in the mid ninties, it was determined that playing first person shooters are valuable off-duty training. They encourage you to react quickly, identify friend or foe, and navigate hostile areas. Clearing rooms, attacking and defending. Top notch training? Nope. Great for helping with hand eye coordination and encouraging instant decision making? Absolutely.
 
Ill say a few words here..no more...considering what happened last time a topic like this sprang up :)

MGS all the way. They are great games.

Metal Gear Solid 4 will be out soon....I think ill play it 48 hours straight before i stop....

I will say this.

If anything, these games do have one advantage (if you wanna call it that) it makes you think, in the back of your mind, there will always be a respawn button. good for a general, bad for a soldier.
 
I never said Infiltration was a subsitute for real life training.
But it will familiarize you with ballistics (Time of flight, drop), ricochet, and using the iron sights.
It also has a few more perks over traditional FPSs.
 
JamisJockey said;
Does everyone here respect the Marine Corps and how they train?
Well, back in the mid ninties, it was determined that playing first person shooters are valuable off-duty training.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link or a reference to that particular study? Was it published in a professional journal?

I think that if you are going to state that a certain videogame is realistc, that you should relate what part of the game you found to be the same as real life military or police SWAT operations you participated in, and what part of the game didn't actually model your real world experience in a similar situation.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this is the Strategies and Tactics Forum on THR. It's not the PC Gamer forum. You need to steer it back on topic, if you want this thread to remain open.
Jeff
 
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