Taurus Judge.45/.410 REVOLVER!!!

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Thad

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August isssue guns and ammo page 32

This sounds too cool, I asked the local gunshop and he said good luck till next year. If anyone knows anything at all please share.
 
I've never been able to get excited about anything Taurus......or pistol/shotgun combos, or the .410, or the .45.....so I guess I can't share your enthusiasm.

What does it do that other guns don't do better?
 
Taurus builds some danged good guns, I have three. But, da Judge is an answer in search of a question IMHO. I cannot see getting one, pretty worthless to me. It's big, it's heavy, and I could carry a .44 mag easier. In the house, I prefer a snubby .38 for door answering or house searching if I have to and my shotgun in my bedroom (my safe room), a real shotgun, a long barreled (well, 20") shotgun. It's a 20 gauge, much less recoil than my 12s, but much more bite than a .410 out of a pistol barrel.
 
They aren't necessarily lemons and many people are buying them. The 45-Ten revolvers are not "heavy" in any configuration. The short barreled version is selling very well from what I gather as it is about the size of a 6" revolver when you toss in the extra cylinder length.
 
I've heard 40+ ounces and to me, that's heavy. My Taurus M66 4" is 35 ounces, the 3" is about 33. My regular carry SP101 is porky for a carry at 27 ounces. I can carry a REAL .45, my Blackhawk, as easy as da Judge. It weighs in about 40 ounces and it's deadly accurate and powerful for deer or hogs.

Someone wrote the Judge was 48 ounces. Heck, I don't know if my Contender with its .45/.410 barrel is much heavier than that. But, I've not picked one up. Maybe they offer a titanium model. That cylinder looks heavier than my Taurus M85UL just by itself. LOL!
 
...and many people are buying them.
That's what I'm hearing, too. I picked up a 6" Taurus Tracker in 357 from a local dealer a week ago, and he mentioned that that the 4510 was selling well. I think it is mostly being bought by hunters and sportsmen, not for HD/SD use. I thought about it, but went for the Tracker in 357 because I already have and load 357. If all the 410 is good for is snakes at close range -- and that seems to be a common claim -- I can carry 38 spl shot cartridges in the 357. As for the 45 LC, a 357 can put down anything a 45 LC could put down, and then some.
 
Maybe I am used to N-frames and the Super Redhawk when it comes to weight. :)

The 3" model is 29oz and the longer barreled one is 32oz unloaded. That doesn't sound too heavy to me. Pick one up; heavy is not a word I would use to describe the 4510's.

MCgunner: Don't dismiss this revolver as some kind of marketing fluk. Go to a gun shop and handle one. You might be surprised and being in Texas and a person who roams snake prone areas, you might find them interesting. I have not shot one, but I expect they are a blast to shoot. I don't think the model was intended to be a traditional concealed carry piece; just a companion piece when you are out in the boat or tramping the woods or fields.
 
I was thinking about getting one, but will wait for real time reviews to come in

Many many great products were panned before they got into circulation and many lemons were praised

I was thinking that for what I do this would be a good gun with it's ability to switch from the shotshells to a big bore bullet
There are times when I need a little better snakeshot than a .38 can provide and times when shooting a bullet to kill a coon would not be as safe as shot and I need a smallish package to all this with
 
Well, 22, your N frames and your SRH are one HELLUVA lot more guns than a Judge out in the woods. :D I just don't see the point of the thing. I don't even want one for home defense.

Yeah, one thing you gotta give Taurus (and I wish Ruger would keep notes), they do know how to market and what the market might want and the Judge is not only proof of that, but proof they ain't afraid to design and build the outragious just to try it. They have a HUGE model selection. Ruger can't even build a carry gun. I mean, yeah, they've got the SP101, but where are the ultralites, the subcompact 9s? I love my Rugers, but they're actually CUTTING BACK models, getting rid of the decocker models in the autos, I hear, from fears they don't have enough safeties? CHRIST! They've got more than GLOCKS and Glock ain't hurtin'!

But, I'm getting off topic and on a rant. I hear da Judge is backordered big time. Totally amazing. I never woulda thunk it. Why would a .44 Special or .45Colt snubby not sell and da Judge would? I guess it's the gimick thing. Most of the questions I hear about 'em, the interested buyers, are not real gun savvy types. I guess they think "WOW, shotgun pistol! I can't miss!" ROFL! Whatever, it is a great marketing thing for Taurus. I just wonder how long lived it will be, but I'm sure they've already made their money back on tooling. Amazing.

I still can't understand the need for shot loads for snakes. I have shot many a snake with a .22 caliber handgun using HV hollow points. Put it in his head and he's done. At close range, I've used an NAA mini revolver to dispatch snakes, never with shot loads.
 
I'm not a big shooter of snakes. When I was younger, I was surprised many a time by a rattle snake in Texas and in the mountains of Eastern KY. At first, I killed them because everyone else did.... Well, I thought about it and I respect their place in the nature of things and I can just walk around them when I encounter one. Water Mocassins are the poisonous snakes that I truly dislike here in the Southern US. Frankly, I carry a walking stick as much as I do a handgun in the woods if that tells you anything about how I feel about snakes.

I was by a gunshop on Saturday where I do a fair amount of business. They told me they had sold several Taurus 4510's that morning prior to my visit.

Initially the thing that appealed to me was the idea of a shooting a 410 shell in a handgun (not a derringer) and actually being able to kill something beyond 5 feet. Thoughts of my youth and hunting rabbits with shotguns really tickled my interest in the guns. It would appear that the 4510's are good to about 15-25 feet or so with a reasonable spread of shot. That is a bit close. I switched hunting rabbits with a shotgun entirely after going out with a 22 revolver and having so much fun.

I also have to commend Taurus for taking a chance in the gun world. Ruger seems to take no chances and when they have an excellent caliber like the 480 Ruger for their SRH's, what do they do... discontinue them because the unknowing prefer the wrist breaking power of the 454 Casull. Ruger just pisses me off really. They should have developed a 22 in the GP100 an lightened the cylinder with an alloy or some other method to reduce the mass. (Sorry for my rant. :) )

Added: The thing that bothers me about the 4510 is the mass of the forcing cone. It was quite small (read puny) and made of the same material as the barrel. Looks like something that will wear out especially when shooting the 45's through it.
 
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Well, I had an advantage in thinking the Judge might be used for hunting. I've got the Contender barrel I've tried. Even that one isn't good for more'n 20 yards, but would be a rabbit gitter if you could get on him in time.

Yeah, unless the snake is in my way (like when I was going to fill my feeder and one was coiled up under it, the one I took with the NAA) anymore I'll just step around it. I've been known to plink water snakes in an infested pond, though, big fun with a .22 rifle or pistol. I've seen ponds so infested with the things, they hurt the fish population, a matter of proper pond management, though I never did any damage to the population. Have to poison 'em to really kill 'em out I guess.
 
If I had the money just lying around, I'd buy the 4510 in a minute. I have other firearms that I want that are a higher priority. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 41 mag in layaway at the moment and have a Weatherby XXII on order. Just bought a Thompson Center Classic 22 rifle the other day and I am really looking forward to shooting that thing. I have high expectations for it. If I find a nice fair priced Smith Model 17 and a 4" Colt Trooper Mark III 22, they will get bought too immediately.

There have been real world reviews of the Taurus 4510. They were introduced in the 2006 Shot Show and it seems that the public is just begining to take notice. They would make an excellent home defense gun. I have plenty to fill that need at the moment. But, again, the ability to shoot both 410 slugs and shot (and the 45LC) in a multishot revolver is very intriguing. The TC Contender with the 41/410 barrel is a bit unyieldy for practical small game hunting, but still fun.
 
I still can't understand the need for shot loads for snakes. I have shot many a snake with a .22 caliber handgun using HV hollow points. Put it in his head and he's done. At close range, I've used an NAA mini revolver to dispatch snakes, never with shot loads.
Actually, this is a good point. Years and years ago, I went rattlesnake hunting in Idaho with a .38. I do not remember what weight bullet we were using, but it wasn't shot cartridges. Every snake I've ever shot -- not a lot, but several -- was either with a .38 bullet or with a .22 bullet. The rule I live by when approaching snakes that might strike is to stay at least 3-4 feet away. If I cannot hit the head of a snake at 3-4 feet, I need to spend more time at the range. Now I'm talking rattlers, cottonmouths, snakes with relatively large heads. A copperhead, on the other hand ... I usually dispatch those with a garden hoe or an axe. :)
 
they have an excellent caliber like the 480 Ruger for their SRH's, what do they do... discontinue them because the unknowing prefer the wrist breaking power of the 454 Casull.

The ability of the .454 to do .45 Colt makes it tough for the .480 to compete with regard to cost and availability of ammo and components. The .480 is interesting, but heavy .45 Colt will punch two holes in everything in the lower 48. When you're on a budget, it's just hard to justify spending twice as much on brass and bullets to get the same results. I've actually never put a .454 through my Super Redhawk.
 
I still can't understand the need for shot loads for snakes. I have shot many a snake with a .22 caliber handgun using HV hollow points. Put it in his head and he's done. At close range, I've used an NAA mini revolver to dispatch snakes, never with shot loads.
That may work well when walking around with space to move if necessary
But I routinely crawl under trailers looking for them and have been surprised before and have been in a position where pinpoint accurate aiming was just not possible

I have seen no real world critiques of the gun
Only a few multipage magazine ads and some assumptions about it's usefulness
 
Kind of neat

I think it's a kind of neat concept, as a gun. It's not something I ever see myself buying, To me, I don't think it is an attractive looking, or very usefull gun...the proportions just look off to me. Like other folks though, I do applaud Taurus for introducing another 'neat' concept.

Not to hi-jack the thread, but I did want to address this little bit that baz said:

As for the 45 LC, a 357 can put down anything a 45 LC could put down, and then some.

Ummm...I'm not sure I agree with this statement. I like the .357, and in the past I have defended the .357 as a viable deer round, out of either a carbine or a revolver.

But...if you look at the Buffalo Bore or Double Tap website, you can see that their man-style 180gr hardcast .357 loads come in around 680-720 ft-lbs.

On the other hand, if you look at their man-style .45 Colt loads, they are moving a 300gr bullet, and comming in around 1200ft-lbs.

In real life applications, this means while I would(and have) used .357 for deer, I would(and have not) use .45 Colt for elk, if it happened to be what I had available.

So...Ummm...there, I guess I'm done....let's resume the talk about The Judge

greg
 
On the other hand, if you look at their man-style .45 Colt loads, they are moving a 300gr bullet, and comming in around 1200ft-lbs.
Interesting. But could these rounds be used in "the Judge?" Doesn't look like it, to me. This warrants more investigation, on my part, but it looks to me like that between 45 LC rounds I could fire in the 4510, and 357 rounds I can fire in the Tracker, that the 357 still wins. Those are some pretty impressive loads, though.
 
I own and use one (6 1/2 inch SS) so here goes.

If you're looking for a safe queen, to be put up and shown, never shot. This is not the gun. It's ugly. If you are looking for a .45 colt revolver to take deer at 100 yards, definitely not your gun. It's by no means a tack driver. So far, 30 yards is my pie plate distance, beyond that I will get wayward shots that never find paper. With shot shells, you expect the rifling to cause a great deal of dispersion immediately after exiting the muzzle, and it does. At around ten yards the spread covers half of a mans body. It's a little impractical as a hunting gun, that's been well established already.

With that out of the way, here's my experience with "The Judge". On the day I purchased the gun I went to the range with two boxes of cowboy loads and four boxes of .410. I tore through the rounds in what felt like minutes. It's a very fun gun to shoot. It kicks less than my 9mm's and less than a .38, no matter which round you're feeding it. Taurus bills it as a personal defense weapon, I imagine it would serve that purpose just fine though I never want to find out. I bought the gun to serve two purposes, to be fun at the range and snake duty around the house and camp. It has yet to disappoint me at either. Now, contrary to what everyone likes to repeat from their friend's cousin's half-sister's dog's previous owner's daddy, this gun will do the job on snakes well beyond striking distance. I usually don't kill snakes unless they are an immediate threat or if they have made my home their's, this is how I know. I've shot cottonmouths, big and small at around 15 yards with the .410s, one shot, dead snakes.

Out of curiousity, I took the thing with me on a rabbit hunt. I didn't intend to use it, but I strapped the hoster on and headed into the field, also carrying my 12 gauge. We ended up following the dogs into a densely wooded lot where the farthest I could see through the brambles and brush was less than 10 yards. I shot two rabbits with it, one shot each. So, yes, there are some practical applications for this revolver should the need arise.

Now, here's why I love this gun. I had it strapped in the holster on my hip one day while we were on the river heading to the camp. We were making a weekend out there, mostly fishing with a little squirrel and rabbit hunting mixed in. My buddies and I tie off when we get to our trail leading to the camp and start unloading. I was helping one of them carry the ice chest up the trail, leading the way for the others when the other guy carrying the ice chest screamed "Oh, sh*t". About three feet in front of us was a huge old log that we knew snakes like but never had too much issue with them around it. I looked down and there were 5 mocassins at his feet as one of them struck at him, it missed. At this point I pulled the 4410 and cleared our way with four shots. The next nearest gun to us, was 30 or so yards back in a case, unloaded. This gun ended several close encounters with snakes, it's quite convenient:).

I realize that no gun is perfect and to expect so is foolish. This gun is actually quite far from being perfect; the cylinder doesn't lock tight, the trigger is exceedingly heavy, the long journey to the forcing cone greatly decreases accuracy with .45s, but this gun definitely has a place in my safe and at my side. It takes care of business quickly. I also feel the need to give it honors for the finish. While it isn't as cleanly finished as some higher end guns, I left it in the boat for two weeks once in an empty well. No blemishes to speak of, and it was extremely damp in that well. I was definitely impressed with that instance. Now I ask kindly, please, if you do not own or have never shot this gun, don't dismiss it so quickly as a useless gimmick and flame anyone who would purchase it. Try it yourself, but realize that it is a comprimise gun, not perfect on either side but a very reasonable middle ground.
 
Anybody chrono'd a 410 slug out of a handgun?

1/5oz. = 87.5 grains. Even if it's going 1200fps I'd still pass.

How come nonbody want's to make a 3"-4" double action 45 Colt?

I have my money right here!
 
Man....

BayouTeche77, after reading your post, I am SOOOOO glad I live in Western Washington. Even while hunting in eastern Washington, never once was there a time when I thought to myself, Man, I wish I had some birdshot loaded in my revolver...

Baz, I do realize what you are saying, and no, I wouldn't use those 'Ruger Only' loads in this Taurus, I was just trying to show that when loaded to the capacity of the cartridge, .45 Colt has much more in common with a .44 Magnum than a .357 magnum.

Question for those of you in snake country...What do you keep loaded in your first cylinder? Is it the birdshot, or something solid? I mean, is the normal assumption that in snake country there are no cougars or bears?

greg
 
No, the Judge cannot fire those Buffalo Bore Ruger/TC only loads. It is no stronger than a Colt SAA or clone. It could maybe push a 255 grainer to something under 1000 fps which is shy of 500 ft lbs IIRC. I have a Ruger Blackhawk and load hot and light loads for it. Sure, it's a lot more gun than my Blackhawk for ballistics, but not with the light loads. Tosses a heckuva chunka lead, though. :D
 
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