Teachers: where are the CONSERVATIVE unions?

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Goet

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And yes, this is very much gun-related.

I'm a brand spankin' new teacher in UT. Around here, almost everyone belongs to the UEA (UT Ed. Assoc.) as well as their local chapter.

BOTH are spinoffs of the NEA!!!

They all oppose just about everything I believe in and vice versa, including supporting banning of CCW in schools and public places.

I took a look at the American Federation of Teachers and they're almost as bad.


Now, some might wonder why bother with unions? Well, I'm not so worried about the union reps as I am about the insurance against false accusations. Just last year in my school a teacher was accused of "improper touching" and was put through absolute hell. I would like representation and at least $$ coverage should the same happen to me.

As it is, if I'm ever found out (CCW), I'll probably be toast.


**Isn't there some conservative union?

What do you teachers do????:(
 
Goet, I have HEARD of some conservative teacher's unions in Christian circles, so I know they exist. One is a national outfit. Not being a teacher I haven't paid close attention, so I don't know if they are specifically Christian or not. I'll do some checking for you let you know what I find.

Didn't realise you were here in Utah! I'm just south of you in Salt Lake - up near Hollady Gun Club. When the wind is right I can hear those lovely sounds of gunfire. :D
 
i think there are few conservative teachers unions because A. we are talking about unions, who are loyal to which party usually, the dems
and B. we are talking about the educational system, which i think is very liberal, but thats just me
BSR
 
Goet,

I feel your pain....I teach in MD and, like you, have found that I basically am opposed to everything that the local and national NEA is for. I had never even had to give thought to joining when I was in VA as my school system paid for my tort liability insurance even though I was not in the NEA.

In the PRMd, this is not a right to work to state. This means they can still take out 80% of the annual dues from my check even though I am not a member (they euphamistically call it a representation fee). After dealing with my jerk principal on a couple of personnel issues, I've come to realize that he's bullying me around because I'm not a member of the union so I will have to go ahead and join so that he'll back off.

It's very troubling to be coerced to join an organization that is anti-gun, anti-education (yes that's right folks), anti-personal responsibility when you find all of those things despicable.:fire:

I'd be open to any suggestions from other teachers as well.....
 
Goet-

I'm not an expert, but this issue has come up here in WA, related to the WEA. Court cases have held that you cannot be forced to pay the portion of union dues that are used for political advocacy if the positions advocated are ones you don't agree with. So what you need to do is ask for a breakdown of exactly how your dues are spent by the union. Then inform them that you don't want to pay the political advocacy portion. They should have some sort of mechanism (ie, paperwork by the truckload) for you to have that portion of your dues not given to them. However, you probably won't actually get this money in your pocket-they tend to force you to donate it to some charity group.

You have to be prepared to fight here on a couple of counts. First is that they will probably make it extremely difficult for you to not send them the political money-the WEA has had its hand slapped for this on at least one occasion. Second, they may have a list of "approved" charities that you can divert the money to (this is what the WEA does)-and most of these "charities," surprise, surprise, aggree with the NEA's politics. So be prepared to fight for who you want to give the money to-I'd suggest the Boy Scouts or something similar. Of course, you can always try the NRA, GOA, etc. You might actually have to take the union to court on one or both of these issues, or at the very least present the appearance of being ready to do so.

Or, you could always go out and found your own union. And ask around with the other teachers at your school. Utah is a pretty conservative state, so you'll probably be able to find at least one in a similar situation.
 
Might look into this non-union org. http://www.aaeteachers.org/index2.htm
for coverage.


Also, an idea of how much coverage really costs:

[In Oklahoma, total union dues (national, state and local) are around $375 annually, and will increase this year.

But how much of that dues money actually goes to pay the insurance premium?

Tracey Bailey, the 1993 National Teacher of the Year, is director of special projects for the Association of American Educators, a non-union professional organization. A popular conference speaker, Mr. Bailey says he has asked hundreds of teachers what portion of their union dues they think goes towards buying insurance. “Almost without exception they’ll say, ‘At least half of it goes for legal and liability insurance and half of it goes for those political things -- I really don’t agree with those but I need the legal and liability.’â€

Mr. Bailey estimates “90 to 95 percent of teachers have bought into this myth†that a good chunk of their dues goes to purchase the insurance.
But according to a rate filing memorandum submitted by the Horace Mann Insurance Company and on file at the Oklahoma Insurance Department, in the upcoming school year the educators employment liability policy will cost the union no more than $4.29 for each covered teacher.

Not exactly the kind of thing the union wants shouted from the housetops.] - Brandon Dutcher

http://www.ocpathink.org/Education/stickershock.html
 
(edited due to my lack of proofreading before I posted it. oops.)

As far as I know there are none around here that are conservative. Unions are unions are unions......very liberal and usually Democrat crazy.

As you guys have pointed out, my feelings/beliefs are contradictory to everything the union here stands for and I vocalized that when the reps in our school tried to get me to join. I thought they were going to be in need of the school nurse bringing them oxygen so they could catch their breath.

My wife had a similar situation where she wouldn't join the union (and resisted what came down to strong arming) and then wouldn't sign a stupid petition going around school demanding "respect". Good grief. She took all kinds of flack and soon realized the real "professional" environment she was in when previously sweet ladies suddenly wouldn't say hello to her in the hall.

For me personally it has me between a rock and a hard place.......here we have to pay "fair share" which comes down to paying dues anyway and not getting any services for your money. It's basically armed robbery and extortion because if you don't join you have to pay anyway so you don't ride the perceived coat tails of the union members when they fight so hard and diligently for your rights as an underprivileged, abused teacher....boo hoo hoo.

Surprisingly there have been several faculty members who admitted to me that they are conservatives, but of course they did it in a whisper while looking both ways in their classroom with the door shut. However, the conservative teacher who is willing to "out" himself is a rare breed. I have only been at the school I'm at presently for half a year and have had about 4 weird situations regarding references towards me being a conservative or being in the room when liberal colleagues were complaing about gun issues.

Before this teaching position, I worked on a college campus..............talk about being bullied because of your political views!!!!! I was there 5 years and finally had to change jobs because I was literally 1 person in my department vs. 120 FLAMING liberals. I couldn't take it anymore. Had all of them been equals or my subordinates, no problem......but they were VP's, suerpvisors at all levels, etc, etc. I fought the good fight every single day I went into work and believe me I gave 110% on the job and even on my own time.........but it was obvious I was being run out of town. So before I was damaged goods professionally, I had to make some changes. Not to mention my attitude and health were going down hill from all the bull.

I'm in a much better situation now and I even have a few allies to work with if the political crap gets too stinky. But I digress.........I suggest we keep in touch on this issue and share info. But I don't think we will ever be lucky enough to have a conservative teachers' union.........that is pretty much a contradiction of terms.
 
Isn't there some conservative union?
Click to expand...
Never heard of one.

Can't imagine how there could be such a thing.

For me, unions = collectivism. Not one of the conservatives that I know believes in collectivism. Not one.
What do you teachers do????
Click to expand...
One of my best friends was a music and science teacher. After x number of years in the hell that is working with Demorat collectivist blissninnies, my friend just simply quit the profession. Good thing he did too. The health problems that he suffered from the stress of working around (as Norton so very correctly put it) members of "an organization that is anti-gun, anti-education (yes that's right folks), anti-personal responsibility", damn near killed him.

On the rare occasions that I interact with teachers, I immediately come to understand how my friend became so chronically ill. Short conversations with 85% of the teachers that I have met make my head hurt. Not only do they make my mind reel with the nonsense that they spout, but they also cause my brain to work in a sort of sudden-death overtime to imagine what on Earth could have gone so horribly wrong that a bunch of nonsensical sniveling ninnies could be/would be entrusted with the precious lives of children.

Uuggh! I'm starting to feel sick just thinking about it.

Good luck. :uhoh:
 
Goet, Norton and EVERYONE else here who is a teacher, should carefully read THIS and make sure they are getting everything the union is required to give them and giving the union NOTHING that the union is not legally entitled to.


The employer and the union must establish certain procedures to safeguard your right to pay only a limited fee to the union. These safeguards include giving you:

* audited financial information about how the amount of the agency fee was calculated;
* an opportunity to challenge the amount of the agency fee before an impartial decision-maker; and,
* the right to place the contested amount of the agency fee in escrow so that the union will not be able to illegally use your money while a decision on the proper amount of the agency fee is pending.

Your right to proper safeguards is based upon Chicago Teachers Union v. Hudson, 475 U.S. 292 (1986),
Click to expand...

(emphasis mine)

So, Norton, have you gotten a copy of your audit lately? No? Well, go stick it to them! Uh, I mean, you should request it from your friendly union. Yeah, THAT'S what I meant. :D



For me, unions = collectivism.
Click to expand...


That about says it. In principle and in practice, unions are anti- personal responsibility and anti-private property, and therefore, anti-personal freedom. Regardless of how they behave themselves, regardless of what REAL wrongs they claim to right (or even succeed in righting), they are morally wrong.

Of course, findino one that isn't morally wrong in PRACTICE,as well, would be a looonnngg search.
 
TWO WORDS ---- School Vouchers!

Send your kids to the school you want using the voucher system. Our current school system has failed miserably. And yes, unions are one of the causes. Liberalism is too.

I hate liberals! And I'm not too fond of unions either. Unions = extortion while pretending it's "paid dues". Give me a frickin break!
 
>Our current school system has failed miserably.

That depends on what you think its purpose is. If you think it's to train people not to think, to obey blindly, to fear eco-doom, to escape into drugs... the system is perfect.

'Course if you want it to give children skills, then the tin-roof shack schools in China are doing a much better job.
 
I know there are several.
Offhand the AAE is the only one I can think of.
Their insurance is a lot cheaper than the NEAs and you are not giving money to a union which is undermining the well being and security of this country.

95% of teachers are in the NEA because either they desire economic protection or they are forced to or they don't know any better.
 
Quartus:

From what I understand, the fight for the audits,etc as well as refusing to pay the fee has already been fought and essentially lost. When we get our annual strong arm solicitation to join, the form has a bunch of legal (from MD of course) citations informing us that they basically have every legal (though not moral) right to take the money from our check, so basically "don't screw with us".


Loaded:

Although I am a public school teacher, there's no way in the world I'll allow my kids to go to public school. The level of indoctrination is ridiculous and the system that I'm in basically ignores anyone of the above average intelligence level or those of fair complexion, if you know what I mean.

I hear your frustration and it's perfectly understandable, but hear me out on whay I think vouchers would ultimately lead to the mitigation of the quality of private schools:

I'm decidedly AGAINST vouchers for the sole reason that it will pollute the otherwise good schools with the voucher cases who were the very problems in the public schools. Take a good look at what section 8 vouchers (that's what they call them in MD anyway) have done to housing in our cities. We give the welfare cases a voucher to go into another neighborhood and "diversify" it and supposedly help these voucher holders rise to the level of their new surroundings. Invariably the neighborhood begins to crumble.

Here in the Baltimore area, we already have a program that allows kids in schools with poor test scores to transfer to another public school that has better scores, thereby allowing those students to allegedly get a better education at the "good school". All this does is to drag the "good" school down to the level of the kids transferring from the "bad" school.

I would much rather work a little harder and raise the money to send my kid to a private school that I know wil be able to maintain it's integrity because it's not taking the government's money. Once the private schools start sucking on the government teet for tuition, they will begin to be beholden to "the man's" money. Then the only alternative is to home school our children.....I don't know about you, but my algebra and chemistry aren't very good these days
:p
 
I am currently attending the university of southern indiana and am working on a degree in secondary education with a history major. you guys making me wonder if possibly i should rethink my chosen profession.
 
Josh,

I think that, for me, it's that I've grown weary of the lack of true educational goals or scholarship in the profession. Very little of what I do doing the day has anything to do with teaching music. Aside from the ages old chores of grades, attendance, etc.....the modern educational system expects us to impart "chraracter education", "diversification education" and any assortment of touchy-feely Kum Baya beliefs.

I love my kids as individuals....I love music...but what I get to do on a daily basis has very little to do with the things that I love. I find myself constantly butting heads with both my colleagues and superiors because I refuse to participate in the state sponsored brain washing of my good kids. We also conflict because I refuse to accept the lousy attitudes and disrespect of the bottom feeders in my classes.

I've taught for 14 years...the first 11 in VA which were great. After 3 years in the socialist state of MD....I'm crying uncle. I'm taking the path of least reisistance in my teaching load, collecting my check and heading for the hills in the afternoon. I'm going to bust my hump to teach the kids in my class, but I'm no longer going to dedicate my heart and mind to the organization that is my school.

My distance from the school has really increased over the last year as I've started to participate in shooting. I've found that my belief system no longer matches up with what I see around me. My colleagues bemoan that violence hear in DC and talk about getting all of the guns off the street, to which I can only respond with the usual arguments of "well they were already illegal to possess because......."

Now that I've said that...I hope that you'll ignore me and follow what your heart tells you. The average teacher only makes it three years before bailing out for another profession so I hope you'll be the exception. Those of us with our heads screwed on straight need to stick it out or the battle is completely lost. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat further.
 
Norton, you've got an interesting point on vouchers. I've not heard that angle before - I'll have to ponder it. I'm well aware of the Section 8 phenomenon that you describe. You're right - it's ugly.

As to the other:

From what I understand, the fight for the audits,etc as well as refusing to pay the fee has already been fought and essentially lost. When we get our annual strong arm solicitation to join, the form has a bunch of legal (from MD of course) citations informing us that they basically have every legal (though not moral) right to take the money from our check, so basically "don't screw with us".
Click to expand...


I'm wonderiing if that's what they WANT you to think. Just bluffing, maybe? Another name is "intimidation".

Why not ask the folks at the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation? THey'll talk to you for free.
 
There are no real "conservative unions." You can, however, find a conservative professional organization. In Washington, there is the Northwest Professional Educators. It competes directly with the union and offers liability insurance. The only reason to be in a union is for the liability insurance. It only takes one underaged kid to make some unfounded allegation and your career is over, win or lose. At least with the liability insurance, you won't go bankrupt. Make sure any organization you join offers liability insurance. You might HAVE to be a member of the union, depending on your districts rules, but you can have the option to be something called an "agency fee payer." It means you pay some money to the union, but not as much as a full member. (The amount you pay goes toward the collective bargaining thing they do with the state.) I'll e-mail the lady from my organization and see if she knows anything about Utah or that region.

Duncan: I totally hear what you are saying. There are only two conservative teachers besides me at my school. THe others, although some are fairly good people, drive me insane with references of random socialism or communism. It can take a toll on your health. I try to get some to go to the range with me to see if I can't turn them around.

Another point regarding vouchers, nothing stimulates improvement like competition. It's what our society was founded on. Schools should be no different. A tax credit might be a better way to go, though, instead of vouchers, but I haven't really studied the issue that much.
 
how the vouchers or tax credits are structured is vitally important. Done incorrectly, they come with huge gummit strings attached, which defeats the purpose. Actually, done wrong, they could destroy any REAL competition.
 
Another important detail to remember about NEA is that they've been proven to lie about the amount they spend on politics and electioneering. When I was paying their dues (because I live in a Fair Share state) I claimed that exemption and they told me it amounted to about $8 per semester. Riiiigghhht. I knew that was BS, but I couldn't prove it. The IRS, however, made a very convincing case. Of course, there was very little coverage of that event in the mainstream press. The NEA got so arrogant eventually that they actually reported to the IRS that they spent absolutely nothing--zero dollars!--on political advocacy, election ads, endorsements, etc. This at the same time that they were offering people a $10 discount per semester so that they wouldn't have to participate in political spending. A ten-year-old could have figured that one out.

As for finding a "conservative union," I doubt it, but I don't care. I don't want a conservative union any more than I want a liberal union. I want my union to concentrate on bargaining at contract time, do what it can with credit unions, insurance and other professional issues, and leave the rest alone. I wouldn't give two bits to know what my union reps think about abortion, gun control or taxes. They're not qualified to have professional opinions on those matters.

I'll be honest, even though I think it's going to get me flamed. If a union is by definition a form of collectivism, then a corporation is also collectivist by definition. Both exist only because they offer advantages derived from pooling resources. One pools investor capital, the other pools labor experience and skill, but each gives its members (or owners) the power to do more because they gather in a "collective."

Of course, that is by definition only. In this state, that analogy would necessarily break down because the law doesn't force everyone who works for, say, Microsoft, to invest in Microsoft. It does force everyone who works as a teacher to pay the NEA's union dues.
 
Joshlm.........don't get too worried or frustrated. It takes a little getting used to when you get out of college and get into the classroom from the other side of a desk, mostly because of the job responsibilities and the disciplinary issues. However, you continue with your goal of getting that secondary ed degree and you'll have a nice future ahead of you.

No matter how much you hear teachers whine and ball suck these days.........it is a good job to have. Depending on where you are you can make a respectable paycheck. You certainly aren't going to live high on the hog, but you can take care of yourself and have fun. You also get some pretty nice benefits and those summers off...........well.............aaaahhhhhh. For just over 2 months I've been able to do whatever I wanted and not had to worry about work.

Most of the problems in teaching come directly as a result of political correctness, liberals and politicians........which ultimately alter our society and thus screw our public school system. Ironically enough, it's then the liberals surrounding you during your work day that are the biggest cry babies, complainers, union suck ups, etc. etc. and they fail to see that it's their mindset that got us where we are in the first place.

I could go on and on as probably all the teachers on this thread could. But, as with any profession you have positives and negatives..........no matter what your degree you'll end up finding something you don't like. But think of it this way........what job gives you 2 + months off in the summer time and still sends you a paycheck?

By the way.......I also have a secondary ed history background so if you have questions, feel free to ask. I'll help if I can.
 
Yeah, if you can make it through the first few years finanicially you'll start to earn a good wage. Also if you can get a Master's degree that'll increase your income. Teaching is a good profession. Having to be around all the socialists is the down side. Summers off give you a great break or let you make some extra money.
 
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