Terrorism - What would you do if...

[rick_reno]

You're in your local shopping mall/Walmart/grocery store and carrying your concealed weapon. A male about 15 feet in front of you catches his jacket on a display and when it opens he reveals a vest packed with explosives. The bomber doesn't know you saw what he's carrying.

This might become a reality in this country sooner than we realize - what do you do?

 

[Rebar]

The only thing you can do - double tap to the head, and accept the concequences.

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Well, like any red-blooded American male, I think I would drop him from behind and become an instant hero when the cops come and see what's under his vest.

Of course, nowadays there's no telling -- the guy could be some sort of police readiness response drill prop. But I say, if that's the case, too bad. Shoulda thought of that before conducting a drill in a public place.

-Jeffrey

 

[Preacherman]

If the vest could be clearly identified as an explosive vest, or resembling one, no question - double-tap to the head and live with the consequences. However, if it's not clear that the vest contains explosives (e.g. there are wires coming out of a pocket - that could be an iPod or something similar), then I wouldn't shoot, but would alert security as quickly as possible, whilst exiting the area pronto along with my loved ones.

 

[RevDisk]

Depends. If I definitely 100% know it's explosives, I'd check to see if he has a deadman's switch in his hand. (ie, it goes boom if he releases his grip.) If I definitely 100% without-a-single-doubt know it's explosives and he has no visable deadman's switch or any other funny business, get as close as possible and fire at least three rounds into his brain stem.

I'd try to ID what the triggering mechanism is. If it's a simple push button type, I watch his hands to make sure he doesn't have his thumb over it. Muscle spasms and Mr Murphy will give odds that he'll clamp down on it under those circumstances. Or that his body will land on it. Or whatever.

If there's no visible triggering mechanism and his hands are moving freely, it's more than likely on a timer. In which case, after shooting him in the stem, I'd loudly encourage everyone to move in a very rapid manner and take my own advice.

If I have even an ounce of doubt, I'd simply notify security/911 and evac. Let the professionals handle it.

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Am I the only one who has stopped for a moment to consider that in this day and age, anyone who heroically stops this terrorist from carrying out his death mission will most certainly be approached with multi-million dollar deals to put his story in print and on film?

Cha-CHING!!

That's a hell of an incentive, and it's almost a sure thing if the guy you pop is an actual terrorist with actual explosives!

-Jeffrey

 

[chopinbloc]

well, i'd feel pretty stupid as i sat in prison for whacking the star of the latest candid camera show (have you seen fear factor, it's a wonder someone hasn't been shot already), i'd shoot him. i'm not worried about deadman switches, they aren't common in the suicide bomber tactics. there is no time to second guess as you have no idea when the sucker's gonna blow. i'd shoot and run, after all even though it's unlikely there could be a dead man switch, timer or a buddy with a remote. see, if you determine for sure that it is an explosive cumberbund and you do not shoot a lot of people will die for sure. if you do shoot, they may live. i see it as a binary solution set.

 

[trooper]

The only thing you can do - double tap to the head, and accept the concequences.

Which would be manslaughter charges because you just shot and killed a Spanish tourist who happened to wear a photographer's vest stuffed with film boxes...

Seriously, I highly doubt that anyone of us can identify a jacket-covered suicide bomber's vest by looking at it while a small part of it is being exposed for half a second.

Therefore the question is purely academic and ranks right up with the ninja mutant zombie bear threads...


Regards,

Trooper

 

[dave3006]

If you killed him and became famous, you could be a big star or you and your family could be targeted by the Islamists for the rest of your life.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Agreed:
Double tap to the head

AFS

 

[Master Blaster]

Well if I'm shopping at Walmart (not likely) I would have the wife and kids with me. I would get the he77 out of the store as fast as my legs could carry us. I would call the police and let Walmart security know on the way out.

I would not shoot as I may be wrong about it being a suicide vest since I am not an expert on these. Shooting could also cause the vest to detonate since I am not a bomb expert. SO leaving fast and letting the authorities know would be the best course of action.

Now if they walked in carrying AK's and started shooting folks at random, different story, although getting the family out of harms way would be my FIRST obligation, firearm is put into action only if the terrorists are blocking the way out.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Shoot him.

As far as the legal thing? A big measuring stick is "what a reasonably person would feel, think, do". Today, instantly dropping what appears to be a suicide bomber is certainly reasonable.

 

[trooper]

what appears to be a suicide bomber

And this is the point of the whole question... based on what observations do you identify someone as a suicide bomber? Just because he wears a coat in the summer? Because he wears a vest whose pockets seem kinda stuffed?

If I were to commit a suicide bombing I'd make sure to properly disguise the bomb. Me thinks that way too many people here just assume they will recognize the guy as a terrorist with suicidal intentions...


Regards,

Trooper

 

[CAS700850]

The coat brushed open for a few seconds at most, giving you a glimpse of what? Sticks of Acme Dynamite strapped together like Wiley Coyote? A big, black cannon ball looking thing with a burning fuse? Or maybe off-white blocks of material labled C-4 in big red letters?

I highly doubt that a real suicide bomber is going to be wearing anything instantly recognizable as a bomb strapped to his/her chest. So, at most, it's gonna be a guess as to what you saw. And, shooting someonw twice in the head based on a guess is going to get you one of two things: imprisoned or famous. Given how common suicide bombers are here in the U.S., guess which one is more likely...

 

[Aikibiker]

These were on the first page of a google image search for "suicide bomb"

http://www.waronline.org/terror/suicide.htm

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/suicide_bomb_2.jpg

The second one is a 16 year old Palestinian yute who was caught at an Israeli checkpoint on his way to kill innocent people in the name of the religion of peace.

I might have hard time recognizing something like what the boy in the second picture is wearing as a bomb. Might just be some kid who listens to way to much 50 Cent and is wearing a kevlar fashion statement. The guys in the first picture would definately be getting a double tap in the head.

 

[Dmack_901]

As everyone's said, I'd only shoot if I was 100%. Even then it would be hard to get a clean shot since the place would be cowded. But on a side note:

well, i'd feel pretty stupid as i sat in prison for whacking the star of the latest candid camera show (have you seen fear factor, it's a wonder someone hasn't been shot already), i'd shoot him.

Since someone has to volunteer you for it, I have to assume that they'd ask that friend whether you carry or not.

 

[dave3006]

You wont shoot. Human nature will cause you to doubt yourself in the absense of his violent ACTIONS. The penalty of your wrong conclusion (jail) will make you want to confirm your instincts. You will run or challenge him in some other way short of deadly violence.

The shot just won't happen based on a hunch.

 

[xdoctor]

If I'm going to shoot this guy for being a terrorist, I'm going to need good proof here. Proof like the words C-4 or TNT written all over the stuff duct taped around him with big red switch that says, 'Push to detonate. Praise Allah, may the streets run red with the blood of the Infidel.' At that point in time, I think its safe to say that he's not selling girlscout cookies.

 

[VMI 1991]

I have spent 14 years in the Navy and a large part of our training, especially for tactical watchstanders, is making the decision to shoot or not to shoot. Whether it is a multimillion dollar anti ship-cruise missile or the 127mm gun on the focsle, all involve the process of determinig hostile intent. There are a multitude of factors that come into play.
I would need a lot more than what was posed in the scenario above before I choose to take a life.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Many of you are over analyzing the question.

rick's question said simply, "A male about 15 feet in front of you catches his jacket on a display and when it opens he reveals a vest packed with explosives"

The question isn't do you know whether there's explosives or not.
The question assumes that you know what you are looking at, so now what are you going to do about it?

 

[Nitram68]

Dial 911, tell them what I know and that I'm armed and ask for the green light to engage, all awhile following and hoping there's time. Should wife and kids be with me, they leave. Should wife not be there with me and kids, I leave with them.

I just don't think I would double tap someone in the back of the head. Hell, I've never seen a packed vest of explosives to know what they look like, apart from TV.

 

[KnightHawk67]

I think some of us are missing his point. Lets put it this way:

Due to your super-human brain power & eons of experience, plus a set of eagle eyes, you see these explosives and know exactly what they are.

Hehe, now answer the question.

 

[trooper]

Dial 911, tell them what I know and that I'm armed and ask for the green light to engage, all awhile following and hoping there's time.

Yeah, and the 911 dispatcher will certainly tell you something like "Sir, under these circumstances I'll give you permission to neutralize that SOB."

In reality their reaction will more likely be "Stay calm, don't panic and get the hell outta Dodge."


Trooper

 

[CAS700850]

Well, if we ignore the details of whether or not we can tell it is a bomb, and we know for sure, then I draw my laser sighted MP-5K from the shoulder rig and fire a three round burst into the guy's head, then calmly blow the smoke from the barrel as the beatiful blone comes over to thank me for saving her life, and we drive off into the sunset in my Ferrari.

 

[Biker]

Knowing that the Ts often station bombs/bombers at secondary and tertiary targets (exits, to catch those who funnel into kill zones after the intial blast, so forth), I'd likely grab me and mine and slide on out the back door as 'under the radar' as possible, then do the 911 thing. To shoot the only visible T could easily cause any others to detonate their bombs. It's a lose/lose situation anyway ya look at it.
Biker