The Ghost In The Fog Zero/RMR 125/4gr JHP bullets PIF journey

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vaalpens

vaalpens

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So I am starting another bullet PIF journey thread.

This week I received some PIF bullets from Ghost In The Fog and will use this thread to post my load decisions and results. Normally I am able to get loads worked up and tested within a few weeks, but this time it will probably be dragged out since chrono test location in the national forest has been closed for the summer due to the high fire risk.

Following are the steps I normally perform after receiving some PIF bullets:
  • Take measurements
  • Decide on the target caliber
  • Do some caliber specific fit evaluation
  • Decide on the loads
  • Evaluate the loads
First things first. Following are the bullets I received with some of the average measurements:
Zero 9mm 125gr JHP
Weight: 125.2gr
Length: .562"
Diameter: .3555"
pif_zero_125_jhp.png
RMR in-house 9mm 124gr JHP
Weight: 123.6gr
Length: .557"
Diameter: .356"
pif_rmr_124_jhp.png

The decision has been made to load these bullets in 357sig. I will compare RMR's to the first batch in-house RMR JHP's I have, and do my normal chrono, accuracy and expansion test for the Zero bullets.

Using the measurements of the Zero bullet, I was able to determine that the bullet should work in 357sig, with a targeted COL of 1.135". Withe the 1.135" COL there should be a sufficient gap between the start of the ogive and the case mouth.

Using the Zero bullets, the next step was to create two dummy rounds and put it through a few setback tests. here are the results and the dummy round:
Plunk test: passed
Cycle setback test: I did 4 manual cycles with one round going from a COL of 1.135" to 1.1345", and the second round from 1.1355" to 1.1350". Both passed the test.
I then used the rounds and pushed them on a bathroom scale to around 20lb pressure, held for about 5 seconds. There was no setback on any one of the rounds, so another pass.
pif_zero_125_jhp_1.png

I still need to do a detailed comparison between the old and new in-house bullets and verify that the new bullets will work in 357sig. I don't foresee any issues with fit in the 357sig.

Once the RMR's have been checked for fit, then I will decide on my loads and test them. Currently I am leaning towards loads with one or more of the following powders: BE-86, Longshot, CFE Pistol
 
With the RMR in-house JHP's I am not planning on putting it through the setback testing. They are very similar to the initial in-house JHP's and the diameter is also .356", which should lend it well to some good neck tension. For reference following is a picture of the original and current in-house JHP's. The original on the left and the current on the right:
in_house_rmr_124_jhp.png

The new in-house bullets seems to be a tad bit longer, but I will also load them with a 1.125" COL. My current plan is to use a load of BE-86, a COL of 1.125", charges of 7.6gr, 7.7gr, 7.8gr. and 7.9gr, and using S&B primers since that is what I used when I chrono'd the original in-house JHP's.
 
How will you test accuracy? Barrel fixture, Ransom Rest, bench rest? And how many rounds and groups?
 
fxvr5 said:
How will you test accuracy? Barrel fixture, Ransom Rest, bench rest? And how many rounds and groups?
Click to expand...

These loads will be tested using my P229 357sig with a 3.9" barrel and standard sights. Testing will be done using my range bag as a rest, or maybe an MTM rest. Accuracy is basically how good I can shoot with my older eyes, but normally I should be able to get a good indication of the accuracy of my loads.
 
Valppens ... This is going to be an interesting test series ... I have been looking at the RMR in house 124 grain bullet as way to make affordable "shooting" ammo ...

I have found the TJC 90 gr for the .380 .... now if this RMR bullet works out ... I'm start loading it in the 357 SIG...

If you get the chance see what expansion looks like at 1400+ fps with a few if you will ..

RMR bullet, S&B primer, Long shot powder
$.098 using code
$.021 primer
$.04 Longshot
$0.16 per loaded round
$8.00 per box 50
 
Last edited:
JimKirk said:
Valppens ... This is going to be an interesting test series ... I have been looking at the RMR in house 124 grain bullet as way to make affordable "shooting" ammo ...

I have found the TJC 90 gr for the .380 .... now if this RMR bullet works out ... I'm start loading it in the 357 SIG...

If you get the chance see what expansion looks like at 1400+ fps with a few if you will ..

RMR bullet, S&B primer, Long shot powder
$.098 using code
$.021 primer
$.04 Longshot
$0.16 per loaded round
$8.00 per box 50
Click to expand...

Jim,

I did test the first batch of JHP's for expansion, but water jugs are not the best of mediums.Ii will definitely test these at 1400+fps once I am allowwed to shoot in the NF again. One of the Longshot loads I tested was the following:
357sig
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9.1gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1425
ES: 46
SD: 20.1
Force: 559
PF: 176
Velocities: 1435, 1406, 1403, 1449, 1435
Grouping @15 yards: 1.34"

The shape of these bullets are great for 357sig, especially with the long bearing surface and the diameter of .356". Your calculated cost of $8 per 50 is close to what I have and is very cheap for 357sig.
 
I also did my ogive test on the Zero bullets, and looks like I will probably increase the COL to 1.140", just to make sure I don't run into setback issues when using longer cases. This should not be a problem since I have loaded some JHP's up to 1.150" in my P229 without any issues.
pif_zero_125_jhp_2.png
 
vaalpens said:
Jim,

I did test the first batch of JHP's for expansion, but water jugs are not the best of mediums.Ii will definitely test these at 1400+fps once I am allowwed to shoot in the NF again. One of the Longshot loads I tested was the following:
357sig
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9.1gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1425
ES: 46
SD: 20.1
Force: 559
PF: 176
Velocities: 1435, 1406, 1403, 1449, 1435
Grouping @15 yards: 1.34"

The shape of these bullets are great for 357sig, especially with the long bearing surface and the diameter of .356". Your calculated cost of $8 per 50 is close to what I have and is very cheap for 357sig.
Click to expand...

Sorry ... I must have missed that part ... Yes that would be a economical load especially if I could afford to order at the 3000 number Jake quoted ... that would put a box of 50 @ <$7.50 ...
 
JimKirk said:
Jake ... Not real funny ... but I handed my dentist 24500 of your bullets this past Thursday ... !!!
Click to expand...

That looks like around $695. I feel your pain. We are sad like this. Every time I have a house expense or something I think of how many reloading components or guns I could have bought with the money.
 
vaalpens said:
That looks like around $695. I feel your pain. We are sad like this. Every time I have a house expense or something I think of how many reloading components or guns I could have bought with the money.
Click to expand...
Nope ...more like $2200 ... Root canal & crown ....

Just using Jake's web price ... no discount from dentist ... so I didn't give him no discount ...

Wait a minute.... Vaal.... You can buy 24,500 bullets from Jake for $695??? I want that code !!!
 
Last edited:
Off thread but ouch on the Root canal. Last time I paid for one of those it made be consider Old West Dentistry, pliers and a bottle of Whiskey.
 
JimKirk said:
Nope ...more like $2200 ... Root canal & crown ....

Just using Jake's web price ... no discount from dentist ... so I didn't give him no discount ...

Wait a minute.... Vaal.... You can buy 24,500 bullets from Jake for $695??? I want that code !!!
Click to expand...

Oops, my mistake.:oops: I did my calculation on $85/3000 instead of $85/1000 if you buy 3000. It would be nice if we could get them for $85/3000.
 
Just a quick update on the progress for these bullets.

I indicated that I would probably have to wait a while to test these bullets since my NF shooting area has been closed for the summer. The plan was to delay creating my loads also, but a reloading milestone appeared on my radar so i decide to start loading a few of these bullets, even though they will only be tested in August.

I was getting close to my 10,000th reload, so I decide I had to make it special with a 357sig load. The highest velocity I have load so far was with the RMR JHP bullet and some Longshot. So the decision was made to load my 10k load using a nice nickel case with Longshot and a 124gr RMR in-house JHP I received as a PIF. That load checks a few boxes and I am planning to also blow something up with the round, juts need to decide what it is going to be. Any suggestions will be welcomed. My wife suggested a watermelon, but I haven't decided yet.

The loads I created leading up the the 10k round and the 10k round were the following:

5 Rounds each using Zero 125gr JHP, Unis Ginex primers, and BE-86 7.5gr, 7.6gr, 7.7gr and 7.8gr
5 Rounds using RMR 124gr in-house JHP, Unis Ginex primers, and BE-86 7.6gr (this took me up to reload #9,999
1 Round special load using RMR 124gr in-house JHP, Unis Ginex primer, and Longshot 9.1gr with a nickel Speer case
5 Rounds using RMR 124gr in-house JHP, Unis Ginex primers, and Longshot 9.1gr (this will be used for expansion/chrono testing)

Following are a few pictures from theh loads I created:

Getting ready for powder, seating and crimping
10k_1.png
The Longshot 9.1gr filled cases before seating
10k_2.png
Applying the crimp to reload #10,000 (I use the Lee FCD)
10k_3.png

And this is reload #10,000
10k_5.png
10k_7.png
 
Dudedog said:
Now comes the decision.
To shoot it or not to shoot it? :)

Maybe you need a poll to decide.:D
Click to expand...

I will shoot it. just need to decide if it is going into a 1 gallon water jug, a watermelon, or something else. I have time to decide but it will go downrange.
 
I know there are some of you guys that like stats, so here goes:

The 10,000th reload:
The total is made up of 2,612 9mm, 3,069 357sig, 945 38spl, 663 357mag and 2,711 40s&w reloads
Total number off loads: 810
Total powder used: 60,278.9gn
Average powder per reload: 6.03gn
Number of days to reach 10k: 987
Average number of reloads per day: 10.132
Round cost: $.05 (.0224 primer, bullet free, case free, powder .0328)
All reloads done on a Lee Classic cast Single Stage

Composition of the 10k round:
RMR 124gr in-house JHP received as a PIF from Ghost In The Fog
Longshot bought locally for $25 (current price $18.40)
Unis Ginex primers bought locally for $22.40 per 1k
Nickel Speer case received as a PIF from jell-dog
 
The expansion on the newer 124 HP is a little more consistent and we get a little more weight retention. I can't wait to see how these shoot for you. I'm much happier with the new design over the older design.

In the mean time, I have been playing with some dies and after a long and painful labor, a new RMR bullet has been born. Introducing the .357 sig friendly 124 FP.

RMR124FP_zpsrlcqnc5b.jpg


rmr9mm124FP_zpsowhrhcha.jpg
 
longdayjake said:
The expansion on the newer 124 HP is a little more consistent and we get a little more weight retention. I can't wait to see how these shoot for you. I'm much happier with the new design over the older design.

In the mean time, I have been playing with some dies and after a long and painful labor, a new RMR bullet has been born. Introducing the .357 sig friendly 124 FP.
Click to expand...

I am also looking forward to testing them out, but will have to wait until end of August, or earlier if they rescind the Tonto closure order.

Congratulations with the new in-house 124gr FMJ FP bullet. I have been checking your website a few times since Friday to see if they were available yet, and will definitely put an order in once available. Looking forward to finally get a reasonably priced jacketed bullet that I can use in both 357sig and 9mm.
 
Yes, Flat points!!!
The old RMR 124 HC plated FN was my favorite bullet. Sadly they have gone the way of the Dodo.
Now if we could just somehow flip the jacket around so the exposed lead is at the tip and the base is covered that would be great.
(don't care about exposed lead at the tip but would like the base covered, I seem to absorb every tiny bit of lead that is anywhere near me)
 
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