The New S&W “Response” 9mm carbine

[Steel Horse Rider]

I must be lacking in sensitivity today. I can't believe anyone would complain that any PCC would have enough recoil to bother them. Go run 100 rounds through a Mosin or Springfield 03A3 then you can talk about recoil. Just my opinion.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Another evil black rifle

Must buy 2 because 1 is none

 

[Walkalong]

I must be lacking in sensitivity today. I can't believe anyone would complain that any PCC would have enough recoil to bother them. Go run 100 rounds through a Mosin or Springfield 03A3 then you can talk about recoil. Just my opinion.

I know, right?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Love 9mm carbines, but I have no interest in this gun, or the FPC really.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Cheaper to shoot, loads of fun, everyone loves shooting my 9MM AR

Yep. It's surprising how many people have forgotten that one of the big reasons a lot of us shoot is that it's fun. Any time I've taken multiple guns to the range the ones that people have really ogled were my HK USC, CZ Scorpion, Beretta Storm, etc.

 

[shafter]

At first glance I like it. If the price is right I could end up with one.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

A decent AR can be had for no extra money. Why bother with a pissy 9mm ?

Because at my range or club and others like it, if you want to shoot an AR, rifle calibers you SIT at a bench and shoot paper......BORING

But if I have a pistol caliber AR, I can run around a few different courses shooting reactive targets. This way I can train with my AR.

 

[gotboostvr]

I don't mind the recoil of direct blowback, my AR9 is currently such.

Less recoil is certainly welcome, but I'd prefer a delayed blowback to get a little better suppression when I run it with my can.

They also typically run a little cleaner to boot.

I wouldn't bemoan anyone for having/wanting a direct blowback 9mm PCC, as I said, I already have one and like it pretty well. I'm just looking to "upgrade" to something I'd enjoy a little more.

@someguy2800 I really like that side charger. Is that a BCA upper? I might do one of those with a roller delayed buffer I think. When funds allow of course.

 

[Mick Boon]

There is no need for a blowback 9mm carbine to be rough to shoot, I put the problem down to the small closed bolt designs.

Shooting this 9mm is like gently rocking a baby.

 

[Pat Riot]

Yep. It's surprising how many people have forgotten that one of the big reasons a lot of us shoot is that it's fun.

I agree. I have guns that are a just for fun. I like to enjoy my range sessions.

Everything gun related doesn’t have to be tactical, technical or a contest of who has the bigger cajones.

 

[C-grunt]

I think it looks pretty awesome. I'll buy one eventually.

 

[Navy87Guy]

Other than a general reference to “other brand magazines”, has anyone found a list of compatible mags?

 

[chicharrones]

People think "Blowback" = "Increased Felt Recoil".

I disagree. Back in the 2000s, before that belief took hold, new shooters I took out loved my old model PC-9 and how little it kicked.

That current belief is due to two PCCs. The Sub-20000 and Hi-Point. The Sub kicks because it uses a really light bolt with a metal tube stock. The Hi-Point stock flexes slightly upwards and "slaps" your cheek when the bolt hits the rear of the reciever. Increasing perceived Recoil.

I wrote this, declined to hit reply, let it simmer overnight, almost deleted, but what the heck. Piling on what others have said . . .

Before the AWB had sunset, a whole lot less civvy shooters fired ARs and they fired things like 6 lb. lever guns in .30-30, 7.5 lb. rifles in .308, and a slew of "full power" mil-surps with steel buttplates. And a lot of those guns had (have) manually operated actions that didn't soften recoil.

I believe the rabbit like reproduction of 5.56 ARs over the last 20 years colors many folks perception on what recoil feels like. That's why I tell folks these days that certain guns "bounce" instead of using the term "kick". Kick implies someone is going to feel some pain, which may be true with the factory issue SUB2000. But there are some soft shootin' 9mm blowback PCCs out there that may bounce around a bit, but they don't cause pain.

 

[Navy87Guy]

That's why I tell folks these days that certain guns "bounce" instead of using the term "kick". Kick implies someone is going to feel some pain, which may be true with the factory issue SUB2000.

I agree…I use a Mossburg 500 shooting slugs as my standard for “kicking”. Anything less than that, I don’t worry about it. Even my UMP - with it’s extremely heavy bolt - is more of a “thump”.

Then again, some people feel the need to have a compensator on a 9mm handgun, so…

 

[someguy2800]

I must be lacking in sensitivity today. I can't believe anyone would complain that any PCC would have enough recoil to bother them. Go run 100 rounds through a Mosin or Springfield 03A3 then you can talk about recoil. Just my opinion.

It’s not about recoil hurting your shoulder like a large caliber rifle, it’s about the gun knocking you out of sight alignment and follow up shots. 2 lbs of steel coming to an abrupt stop in one direction and then turning around and doing the same thing in the other direction makes it difficult to stay on target. If you ever shot a delayed blowback gun with a light bolt you would see what I mean.


When I put the roller delay setup in my gun I took almost half a pound of mass out of the bolt and buffer and went from using a +10% power AR10 recoil spring to a standard carbine spring with like 8 coils cut off. That is a HUGE difference in how much the gun jumps around. Even with the extra heavy bolt and extra heavy spring, mine would still eject brass about 15 feet away and the roller setup ejects about 6 feet. The roller kit comes with a super soft recoil spring that's made from like .040" wire. It maybe has 3 or 4 lbs of force on the bolt. Shooting with that spring the sights don't even move off the point of aim. It worked fine with that but I felt it would probably become an issue when it got really dirty so I replaced it with the cut down carbine spring for reliability.

 

[someguy2800]

@someguy2800 I really like that side charger. Is that a BCA upper? I might do one of those with a roller delayed buffer I think. When funds allow of course.

It is a BCA stripped upper. I could not find a side charging 9mm bolt at that time so I bought a standard one and drilled and tapped it for the handle.

 

[PO2Hammer]

There is no need for a blowback 9mm carbine to be rough to shoot, I put the problem down to the small closed bolt designs.

Shooting this 9mm is like gently rocking a baby.

You rip on inaccurate PCCs, then trot that thing out like it’s the ne plus ultra of 9mms?

My Ruger PCC is more accurate than my 10/22 out to 100 yards, half the price of a 223 to feed, and you can actually find ammo at the hardware store, unlike the.30 carbine and it’s unobtanium ammo.

 

[Jim Watson]

Other than a general reference to “other brand magazines”, has anyone found a list of compatible mags?

Pretty sure you get a M&P and a Glock with the gun. But I have not seen what else they might cover.

 

[Mick Boon]

You rip on inaccurate PCCs, then trot that thing out like it’s the ne plus ultra of 9mms?

My Ruger PCC is more accurate than my 10/22 out to 100 yards, half the price of a 223 to feed, and you can actually find ammo at the hardware store, unlike the.30 carbine and it’s unobtanium ammo.

Of course that thing is inaccurate , I never claimed otherwise. It is however fun to shoot close ranges .
So is this thing

I believe everything you say about your Ruger PCC, I really do.PMSL

 

[PO2Hammer]

Didn’t think you were allowed to have that much fun up there, eh?

 

[Mick Boon]

Didn’t think you were allowed to have that much fun up there, eh?

Most people in the US don't have a clue about Canada.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I believe everything you say about your Ruger PCC, I really do.PMSL

Well, my 10/22 suuuuucked, can’t find carbine ammo, but my Ruger will shoot 2” @100 yards with careful hand loads.
Recoil is meh.

 

[Pat Riot]

It’s not about recoil hurting your shoulder like a large caliber rifle, it’s about the gun knocking you out of sight alignment and follow up shots. 2 lbs of steel coming to an abrupt stop in one direction and then turning around and doing the same thing in the other direction makes it difficult to stay on target. If you ever shot a delayed blowback gun with a light bolt you would see what I mean.

THIS ^^^^^ Is exactly why I put a recoil buffer pad and a comp on my Ruger PC Carbine. I can now stay on target when shooting.

I think I know something about recoil. I shoot a 6# 45-70 rifle occasionally.

I like @chicharrones description of “bounce”. That’s a more appropriate term for how my PC Carbine acts while firing.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Good on S&W for producing another option. It’s not for me as we are inundated with AR-type firearms and prefer new/innovative designs. Note that I am not criticizing ARs (I have many); instead, I’m not really finding anything unique or interesting in the S&W offering that makes me add it to my guns to buy list. Also, I think 9mm excels in bufferless PCCs, especially because users can add folding/collapsible stocks without the limitations caused by an AR buffer tube.

 

[Robert]

M1 Carbines make mush better rifles than any blow back 9mm.

The cost of 30 Carbine is starting to make my 375 H&H look affordable...