The perfect home self defense weapon?

[LkWinnipesaukee]

I was reading a thread about using a shotgun as a home defense weapon. It seems buckshot would not penetrate the hypothetical BPA the criminal's wearing. But a 5.56 round could be inaccurate if one were 1/2 asleep or hyped up on an adrenaline rush (probably the latter, whenever I'm awakened by a sound I always get jumpy-- idk, has anyone ever had a break-in?).

So I was thinking...

would a semiautomatic shotgun loaded with alternating buckshot/slugs work? that way you would have the best of both worlds

Just a thought...

 

[Alex45ACP]

.

 

[kengrubb]

would a semiautomatic shotgun loaded with alternating buckshot/slugs work?

The blast from a handgun indoors is quite overwhelming. Shotguns and rifles methinks could be disabling--for the home defender.

If you're dead set on a long gun, I would prefer a shotgun to a rifle.

00 buckshot is probably ideal, but some recommend something as small as #4 buckshot. Anything smaller can be defeated by a heavy coat.

Slugs tend to drive deep and keep going. This is great when the target is human tissue, but when it exits the body you'll need an appropriate backstop. If your master bedroom is in the basement then you're covered. However, for most, slugs won't be dissuaded by sheathing and siding. Brick would make a good backstop, but those pesky window panes are quite fragile.

Rather than mixing, I would think you'd want to load buckshot and keep a few slugs on the frame mounted shell carrier if you should need to take a hostage rescue shot or BG is wearing body armor and you need a slug. This way you KNOW the gun always throws a pattern of shot unless you intentionally load a slug. You don't wanna be guessing if you have to take a hostage rescue shot--did I fire 3 shots or 4?

 

[wingnutx]

I finally settled on a claymore, duct-taped to my SAPI plate.

I bearhug the intruder and then squeeze the clacker.

If that doesn't work then I beat them with my carbon-fiber e-tool.

 

[Mandirigma]

Just stick with 00 Buck (04 as an alternate). If you are worried about Body Armor, aim low. Remember buckshot bounces off of concrete.


If inappropriate, Mods please delete or reedit post.

 

[NorthernExtreme]

Shotgun -w- 00 Buck, even if it doesn't penetrate it'll knock some of the threat out of them. For that matter so will 0000 buck. Reduced recoil 00 buck is what I use. I was given the opportunity to shoot it inside a building during a level 2 shotgun class I took. The idea was to expose us to the sound and percussion so we would be better equipped to deal with it if needed.

It was a real eye opener, but it wasn't as bad as a .223.

 

[Boom-stick]

I have one,

His name is 'Dave' and he is a leopard cross cat.

He is silent, quick and I've trained him to go for the back of the neck

Other than that, a shotgun as listed above with 00 in the pipe and slug on the side saddle.

 

[AStone]

Perfection is a mythical concept

It doesn't really exist except in the minds of idealists.

Having said that,
given a choice between life & death,
I'll take life (even if with reduced hearing).

Therefore, IMO,
I'll take the 870P
backed up by the 9mm,
which is backed up by
the 642 in my pocket.

 

[sacp81170a]

The blast from a handgun indoors is quite overwhelming. Shotguns and rifles methinks could be disabling--for the home defender.

Not being picky, but if this is the case, why don't we ever hear about this phenomenon in every case where a firearm is discharged indoors, whether in defense or in a criminal attack? Honestly, if a firearm being discharged indoors causes everyone in the room to be "disabled" I would think that you wouldn't even need live rounds. Just pull the trigger on a blank and watch the bad guy collapse in a quivering heap. Where did this get started?

Back on topic, if you engage a home invader who's wearing body armor, buck or slug either one is going to cause some blunt trauma at home defense distances. The probability of the bad guy wearing body armor is another question entirely. I wouldn't want to get shot by a 12 gauge at 15 feet with *anything* regardless of whether it penetrated.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

The perfect would be a fully-automatic, high-capacity, short-barreled Saiga shotgun. Spray massive amounts of buck at the scumbag home invader. If you've ever seen videos of this thing - you'll agree.


2nd to that would probaby be some sort of submachinegun. Uzi, Thompson, MP5, greasegun...


If we have to abide by the law which prevents us from being able to effectively deter tyranny in our nation, then we have to settle for semi-automatic options at best.


I'd say an AK would be a good choice. AR would be good too. One of the BEST would be an M1 Carbine. Short, light handy. Perfect caliber. Not overkill (as far as blast), but powerful. I'm all for overpenetration. More the better.

 

[Zak Smith]

The full-auto short-barrelled Saiga is not easy to control-- expect ceiling damage.

With regard to accuracy-- all firearms need to be aimed, and long-guns are easier to aim than handguns.

Whatever weapon one chooses, realize that mindset, real training, and the practice to keep up the training investment are way more important than weapon choice.

 

[enfield]

I use two Jack Russell Terriers.

 

[Soybomb]

If you were going to be inaccurate with 5.56, you'll be inaccurate with buckshot. Its not heat seeking. I'd go with whichever you were the most proficient with, my ballistic preference being the ar15.

 

[Correia]

Zak, the 8" isn't bad in short controlled bursts.

 

[ilbob]

I was reading a thread about using a shotgun as a home defense weapon. It seems buckshot would not penetrate the hypothetical BPA the criminal's wearing. But a 5.56 round could be inaccurate if one were 1/2 asleep or hyped up on an adrenaline rush (probably the latter, whenever I'm awakened by a sound I always get jumpy-- idk, has anyone ever had a break-in?).

The pattern buckshot or heavy shot patterns make at short distances such as in a house are not all that big. If you would miss with a rifel at those distances, you would miss with a shotgun too. Shotguns have no magic powers that cause the rounds to impact in the desired area even if the gun is aimed elsewhere.

 

[RustyShackelford]

use of different loads in a protection 12ga shotgun

I worked with a security guard/EP specialist who bought a new .12ga pump shotgun, then loaded deer slugs and 00 .12ga buckshot rounds like you posted.

I would not load a .12ga shotgun like that for protection use because you may not know what kind of threat you are dealing with if you need to fire the shotgun. You should also know/understand what type of area you will carry the shotgun in; a country area with few people around, a small business in a crowded strip mall, a condo in a major city, etc?

Hollywood films and TV shows make .12ga shotguns look like a great way to get a lot of firepower. But can you handle the recoil? Can you handle a .12ga shotgun under stress? Can you do tactical reloads, fire weak handed, etc?

If you want to use a .12ga for home/business protection, I'd get factory fresh law enforcement rounds in 00 buck from Hornady(TAP) or Federal. Many ammo makers now have .12ga LE loads for use in protection/self defense.

RS

 

[.45&TKD]

slugs....... if you should need to take a hostage rescue shot

Can you get that kind of accuracy with slugs and a only bead front sight?

I have a 870 HD, but have not fired slugs out of it yet.

 

[pete f]

RE anyless than 4 buck will be defeated by a heavy coat.


I call this utterly false.


Maybe at 50 0r 60 yards, you can defeat BB or 2 or 4 shot with a heavy coat, but I doubt it. I still carry maybe 20 #6 shot in my neck and back from a hunting accident fifteen years ago where I got sprayed when a bird got up and then came back between the line of hunters, and the novice just followed the bird and fired. I was maybe 35 yards away but they (the pellets) went right through my hunting vest, jacket and heavy shirt I was wearing. Only the fact that I saw what was happening and tried to turn and duck prevented me from getting my eyes shot out.

IN a house, the furthest reasonable shot is going to be ten yards and most like far less. At five yards, a load of 8's will blow a big hole right thru a 2x6. I have seen feral dogs shot at 5-7 yards inside a barn that left fist sized holes all the way thru the chest when shot with 6's or 7 1/2's.

Walk around your house and figure what is the longest possible shot can make, then get a couple of chunks of road kill or the like and shoot that with a shotgun at the distance your house will allow. A big rec room will probably average 14X20 your stairs are maybe 17 feet top to bottom. kitty corner from kitchen to Dinning room maybe 25 feet. Loading up with a rifle for that distance makes no sense. An ounce and a quarter of BB or 4 buck or even 00 is going to hit as a single mass at the distances we are talking about. No one wearing a vest, hit with a shotgun blast at in the house ranges is going to be immediately returning fire. You will have time to say, hmmm one more for good measure, if you hit body armor with a shottie at 5 yards.

Before you go tossing statement around that a heavy coat will stop a load of BB, KNOW what you are talking about.

 

[sacp81170a]

Can you get that kind of accuracy with slugs and a only bead front sight?

To answer your question, yes. I took a tactical shotgun course a couple years ago and we were making head shots on targets with only the BG's head showing behind a hostage target. You can make the shot with 00 buck out to about 10 yards or with a slug to about 20 yards with only a bead for your front sight. The caveat here is that you *must* know how your shotgun patterns with that particular load at that range. If you've never tried it in practice and don't know where your shotgun shoots, don't even try it in a real situation.

Some shotguns shoot to slightly different POA's, so the bottom line is that if you're going to use your shotgun as a home defense tool, ya gotta go to the range and practice with it on the kinds of shots you might have to take. All the debate in the world on an internet forum is useless speculation unless you go to the range and establish confidence in yourself and your equipment. The same goes for AR's which shoot 1 1/2" to 2" *below* point of aim when you're up close. Taking a precision shot without knowing where the point of impact will be is, well, not precise. In a hostage situation, precise good, imprecise bad.

 

[longeyes]

.45 pistol. Get good at head shots. Buy some electronic muffs.

And: The shotgun was, is, and will be a good idea.

 

[CWL]

Unless the BG is wearing Level III with trauma plates, even a non-penetrating shotgun slug is going to create a dent in BG's chest cavity. You do not need to penetrate to cause serious internal injuries.

00 buck plus a few slugs on your carrier should be plenty enough gun.

 

[ready4shtf]

I load mine where the first 5 rnds out the hole are green shell 00 buck and the last 3rnds are red shell slugs. Helps to remind me that i'm empty. But the main reason is that if I need to switch to slugs (for armor or precision), I just hold the side release and pump out the greens until I get to red shells.

 

[Wastemore]

If it goes bang everytime I squeeze the trigger and a projectile or many small projectiles come out of the end and hit my intended target- it's a perfect home defense weapon.

 

[KD5NRH]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm

About halfway down is the 00 from what appears to be a 2.75" shell, and from considerably more than home defense range. Having a dent that size knocked in his rib cage should slow the BG down enough for you to adjust to a head shot if needed. OTOH, I've seen the impact effects from my 3.5" 00 18 pellet Magnums, (definitely not the low recoil variety) on some pretty heavy stuff, and I'm pretty sure it would be hard to justify a follow-on shot until the BG recovers enough to become a threat again. Given how hard about half the load punched a heavy steel target rack from 10yds, I'm guessing that would take a while.

 

[gezzer]

It's dark, green or red won't matter. Hit the perp with whatever is up the tube at close range itwill not matter.