The Rundown on 9mm Carbines?

[StrikeFire83]

Now that I have 2 handguns in 9mm, I was thinking that my next firearms purchase (a LONG way off) should be a pistol caliber carbine in 9mm.

My range has a Baretta CX4 Storm in 9mm for rent, and I think I'll try it out to see what it's like.

Just looking for info from people who own modern pistol caliber carbines. What kind of range can I expect? What kind of accuracy do they have? Do ballistics of the 9mm round change with it coming out of such a long barrel?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[grendelbane]

I enjoy my 9mm carbine, but I am sure that there are many here who will tell you that they are totally worthless.

I certainly don't subscribe to that philosophy, but I do admit that they have their shortcomings.

I would say that their practical range is about 100 yards. They will fire much farther of course, but the trajectory of the bullet is pretty well arched by that time.

The long barrel provides a definite, but limited boost in velocity. All barrels are different, but I would say anywhere from a 100 FPS to 200 FPS boost, depending on bullet weight and powder charge. For serious purposes, I would recommend the heavier bullet weights.

Now the pistol caliber carbine bashers can have their turn.

 

[meef]

I see that among your firearms you have a Glock 17.

Well now, KelTec has a nifty carbine called the SUB 2000 that just happens to use Glock 17 magazines. Might want to do a bit of research on it.

 

[nipprdog]

For serious purposes, I would recommend the heavier bullet weights.

bad choice. in most cases, the heavier bullets will have little, if any increase in velocity, and will probably lose velocity. has to do with the faster burning powders used for heavier bullets.

p.s. not a "pistol caliber carbine basher".

 

[marklbucla]

I've got a Ruger PC9 and an Olympic Arms AR in 9mm. I love them both. They're accurate, fun, and cheap to shoot!

 

[StrikeFire83]

Okay...well, help me make a "short list" of 9mm carbines.

1. Beretta Cx4 Storm
2. Kel-Tec SUB 2000
...

 

[cracked butt]

Hi-Point makes a carbine and they are ultra cheap at around $170 in my area. I've been tempted by them, but I just don't have a use for one and I have plenty of other fun guns already.

IIRC, HK might have made a carbine in 9mm similar to the Beretta CX4- there was one in .223 and another in a pistol caliber, might have been in 9mm but I'm not sure. I shot the .223 version 5 or 6 years ago.

 

[meef]

Regarding your initial short list -

I don't know how much cost is a factor to you, but the SUB 2000 can be had for around $270 - $290. The Storm will run you at least twice that much, likely more.

That difference will buy a lot of Glock 17 33-round mags and a really big batch of ammo.

 

[grendelbane]

bad choice. in most cases, the heavier bullets will have little, if any increase in velocity, and will probably lose velocity. has to do with the faster burning powders used for heavier bullets.

I don't think that it is a bad choice, and here is my reasoning.

I am well familiar with the claims that heavy bullets can actually lose velocity in 16" barrels. That this happens on occasion, I do not doubt, but my experience with a handful of carbine length 9mm's tells me it is a rare exception to the general pattern of things.

Look at your chart and you will see that the lighter bullets experience a larger increase in velocity. This can push them faster than required for optimum penetration. In a hollow point bullet, higher velocity usually results in increased expansion, but lesser penetration.

The heavier bullets stay closer to their optimal velocity envelope. That is why I prefer them, not because of any difference in efficiency between the 2 types of bullets.

For plinking, with FMJ bullets, it makes no difference, though I note that my AR shoots the heavier bullets a touch more accurately. I think that this is because the heavier bullets are longer, and a better match for the rifling twist.

So, there is method to my madness.

 

[Bigfoot]

Hi-Point shootoff with Ruger PC9.
http://www.mkssupply.com/documents/guntest.pdf

ATI $70 stock.
http://www.atigunstocks.com/product-hipoint.html

Pistol caliber carbines are great for backyard skunk-coyote control and cheap plinking because they are quieter and more accurate than a pistol. Since it's kept close to the back door it might also be used as a defensive gun if it's the closest gun to grab. It's not the kind of gun that I would want to spend lots of money on though. I'm going to get one of the Hi-Point .45 carbines when they come out.

 

[RecoilRob]

PC-9 Ruger....

Lots of hi-cap mags available. Allows you to carry ammo that is useable in both handgun and carbine.

Low recoil...fast followup shots easily made.

Durable and cheap to shoot.

Relatively quiet...doesn't ring my ears like rifle fire does without ears. (No, I don't shoot it much without ears but have and it isn't NEARLY as bad as an AR-15 or such).

When the Zombies Attack...your #1 Choice!

 

[rbernie]

I have a Marlin Camp Carbine in 45ACP. I like it for indoor long gun practice - it uses my 1911 magazines and shoots ammo that's even cheaper to make or buy than 223. It's light and handy.

If it had a more robust trigger guard/magazine housing, it'd probably be a decent SHTF rifle for close-range work. As it stands, I'd be reluctant to trust it as my primary SHTF long gun.

 

[AFhack]

you could go for one of the AR-15 9mm variants.

If you wanted to go cheap you could build your own lower, buy a 9mm upper and then maybe have room for a 223 upper later on.

 

[browningguy]

I really like my KelTec, mine has the G17 grip. I keep four of the 31 rd. mags loaded up, plus the 10 rounder that came with it, and a couple of regular G17 mags that I picked up cheap. It's quite a decent amount of firepower that fits in a brifcase. Mine shoots 2-2 1/2" at 50 yards, I'm much worse at 100 because of my tired old eyes, but they are still all on a 12" target.

 

[grendelbane]

but I am sure that there are many here who will tell you that they are totally worthless.

OK, so I was mistaken. THR is much more pistol caliber carbine friendly than a couple of other forums which will remain nameless.

I think everybody ought to have at least one.

 

[Foxtrot427]

I like the camp 9. Its nice with the pistol stocks.

 

[Lex]

Like others have stated, go with a 9mm AR. You can add more parts later and have a 9mm and .223.

Plus, AR's have plenty of cool toys to add on!!!!!!!!

If it comes down to $$$ (like me), go with the KelTec. The CX4 does look cool but the $$$ is alot more. For that kinda $$, I'd do the AR upper in 9mm.



Lex in NC

 

[silicon wolverine]

my short list

1. buy a vulcan 9mm upper and have a Ar style. around 900$
2. Hi-point. No tackdriver but a good plinker. 150-210$
3. Glock 17 carbine conversion 300$

I like the glock conversion the best. I sold off the other two to pay for it. And before the vulcan/hesse bashers start, i had ZERO problems with my upper using good quaility sten mags.

SW

 

[Cortland]

UZI!! They're affordable ($600 from Vector, I think). Plenty of hi capacity magazines, a fair number of accessories, accurate, and just plain cool. You can get conversion kits for .22LR and .45 ACP, too.

At 50+ years old, the Uzi may not be "modern" but it'd still be my first choice. As far as accuracy goes, I can hit a 12" gong at 100 yards with my open bolt Uzi, so I imagine a semi would be plenty accurate.

 

[Ivy Mike]

seeing that you have a Glock 17, might I suggest the carbine conversion unit from Mech Tech systems. http://www.mechtechsys.com/
It uses your Glock's frame and a new, blowback upper. Right on MechTech's techincal page, they state that they designed these things to work with the hottest loads and that weak loads may cause issues. I've not used one, but I doubt you'd have any real trouble.
IIRC, I saw some Hirtenberger +p+ around not long ago that would be a blast (no pun intended) to shoot for not much money.

 

[tomkatz]

Alot of good ideas offered here as usual....I have a ruger pc9 and I like it. Recoil Rob, what mag is in your pic?
BTW I recently saw an olympic arms AR made for glock 9mm mags, pretty cool .
.....tom

 

[BillinNH]

I like the Kelktec sub2000 with the S&W59 magazine format since it fits my Marlin Camp 9 and my Keltec P11 pistol as well. I like the HiPoint for its ergonomics, reliability, low price and audacious styling . All three of these guns are very satisfying to shoot and the Keltec is especially accurate.

I also recommend the Marlin Camp 45 if you can find one and I intend to get the Hipoint 45 as soon as it comes out.

I think the Rugers are fine guns but a little heavy.

I think the Beretta is seriously overpriced.

I think the 40 cal. carbines from various manufacturers are well worth considering.

I'm glad we have all these choices.

BTW, there are really two justifications for a pistol caliber carbine: They will do everything a pistol will do only better and they are great good fun to shoot.

Bill

 

[Double Naught Spy]

BillinNH said,

BTW, there are really two justifications for a pistol caliber carbine: They will do everything a pistol will do only better and they are great good fun to shoot.

Not exactly. They will not do everything a pistol will do, only better. Specifically, their size causes limitations, as does the size for other carbines. It is easier to clear rooms with a smaller platform than a larger platform, so pistols are easier in this regard than carbines. The more confined the area, the less useful the carbines. Note, there is a reason tunnel rats in Vietnam used handguns instead of carbines for clearing tunnels.

As for being fun, lots of guns are fun.

AFhack said

you could go for one of the AR-15 9mm variants.

If you wanted to go cheap you could build your own lower, buy a 9mm upper and then maybe have room for a 223 upper later on.

9mm AR15s are usually not cheap, being the price of AR15s. Mags are not cheap either. You can change out uppers and that would be a nifty benefit, but not really inexpensive.

 

[dfaugh]

I bought one of the 9mm Hi-Points when they first came out...best $165 bucks I ever spent. 5000 rounds and never a problem. Off a bench, at 50 yards I can hold 3-4" groups (10 shots), using "cheapo" ammo (Wolf or Blazer), which for me with iron sights is all I would expect. Expect I wouldn't have much trouble hitting a "man-sized" target at 100 yards, although I consider 50 yards to be a more practical range. Note that the Hi-Point will handle +P+ loads (which I keep loaded in the magazine for HD) and they probably attain pretty high velocities out of the longer barrel, although I've never chronographed any. Someone, whether on this board or another(maybe do a search on handloading section), worked up some handloads (that were NOT +P or +P+) and claimed a velocity over 1700 fps, tested in a Hi-Point.

In short, I think they're really handy, as well as fun plinkers.

 

[eab]

AR 15 9mm mags are cheap. You can get it setup to take Sten mags and those are some of the cheapest mags you can get. However, everything else about it is expensive. The lower runs about $200.00 add the upper and you are totaling about $600-$800 depending on options. Not really cheap in my book.