The Tactical 30-30 Lever Action Rifle

[ArfinGreebly]

Cowboy Assault Rifle

THR's George Hill (if you'll forgive me, George) is absolutely "the man" when it comes to lever rifles.

His evolution of the CAR-Thirty can be found here.

http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Marlin336CS.htm

Anyone who can mastermind one of these is a guy I'd like to meet.

George's "CAR-Thirty. Cowboy Assault Rifle"
here

and

Since George won't do his own bragging, I figgered I'd help him out some.

Lordy, I do love the look of that "Black Marlin" rifle gun.

 

[nemoaz]

http://www.suarezinternational.com/leveraction.html

I'm sure this guy is knowledgeable, but with the commando assault stance it is just hard for me not to laugh at him.

 

[Vairochana]

For those who were bagging the levergun as opposed to an AK or AR just remember that in some parts of the world we can't have semi-autos

 

[B.D. Turner]

My go to rifles are both lever action Marlins one a 336W in 30-30 and an 1894 in .44 Magnum. By the way my state does allow military looking semi automatics so I could own anything on the market.

What has changed about self protection in the last 150 years? The same rules still apply today. Favor is on the side of the one that delivers the first accurate shot. Nothing will ever change about this. That leaves the ball in the court of the protection minded firearm owner. It is his duty to pratice and sharpen the skills needed to act in a life or death situation. We have seen by past incidents that most gun encounters end with only a few rounds fired. Some incidents required many rounds due to caliber failure or tactical failure on the part of the shooter.
The Marlin 336 30-30 is accurate enough to fire within a inch square at 100 yds.. Low recoil puts you back on target quickly. The 30-30 caliber has dropped bear,moose, and elk so the caliber is a proven stopper. The .44 and .357 are proven calibers both in the field and as law enforcement calibers. In todays world of high tech rifles the old lever action still has its place and is still doing the job.

 

[ravencon]

What has changed about self protection in the last 150 years?

The legal consequences of acting to protect life and property have changed in many jurisdictions. Which is why a lever action may be the best "real world" choice even if it isn't the best tactical choice.

 

[BigG]

Can't we have a flashing bozo face alert icon in the table of contents for these threads that inexplicably get dredged up again after how many years?

 

[Chilean]

hey, we use the winchester 1873 in the war of the pacific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

 

[go_bang]

Since this thread has been stirred up again, here is the article Ashley Emerson wrote about his experiences using a Marlin 336 30-30 at Thunder Ranch:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/thunder_ranch.htm

 

[KaceCoyote]

wow...ancient history.

 

[George Hill]

This threat just might be one of the oldest Zombie or "Living Dead" threads on THR. Goes back to 2003? Wow.

The world of the .30-30 Lever has been blessed by Hornady. Their LEVERevolution ammunition is fantastic stuff... and now they have it in .35 Remington, .45-70 and a couple others... and now they have even remixed the .307 Win round and have called it the .308 Marlin Express which gives you a fast handling lever gun that hits just like a .308 rifle. Very nice. Lever Action shooters have never had it so good. My CAR-30 has benifitted greatly from Hornady's new ammo. I love it. It's all I shoot from it. At FBMG's little machine gun shoot a few months ago now, several guys were impressed at the little lever's ability to reach out and hit targets 200 to 300 yards away. It is not a rifle you want to underestimate. It has killed rabbits and coyotes out to 300 and an Elk at 200. Elk are very large tough muscled animals. To be able to cleanly dispatch one, you need a bullet that has good performance and penetration. If it can drop an Elk with no problem, it can certainly drop any two legged threat.
A gun that used to be considered no good for anything past a hundred yards is now hitting at three hundred yards... and with this new .308ME round? Lots lots farther. The only limiting factor to the long range lever shooter is that the longer barrel may suffer from some inconsistncy thanks to vibration issues which Marlin has worked hard to smooth out. Already Hornady and Marlin have proved this cartridge's worth in taking big game.
I think it might be a big benifit to work up a .308ME Carbine. With a shorter/stiffer barrel, it might give better accuracy at the expenise of a lower velocity.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

There is such a thing called a trust factor. Have you ever seen a Quality lever action jamb? I have not. Firing one of those things at someone definitely will put the Fear of God in you quick. If you can't put down a situation with a lever gun than something is wrong. Your shot placement is apt to be more sure of itself, again with a levergun than some others with a thirty round mag. Shot placement is key and had you gotten that down for quite a few years with that same gun why not rely on it when things do go south. I have never seen a failure to feed with any winchester '94 that I have ever fired. I have never seen one not go bang. That's big medicine when it comes to confidence in a pinch.
And as far as confidence goes there more than enough false confidence to go around.

 

[rlord]

my 2 cents

I keep the Winchester in my closet for a couple of the reasons stated in the article and one other very important one. My young boys, 6 and 4 are going to have one heck of a time reaching the thing up on the top shelf of the closet. For me its an easy reach. If somehow they managed to climb up to the shelf and somehow find and then pull the rifle down from behind the stuff in front of it AND hadn't fallen on their head and gone crying to momma, I'm still not worried. They'd have to figure out how to work the lever AND stick with it long enough to actually chamber a round. You know how easily distracted they are. When that first round came flying up into the chamber, all work on the lever would stop and they'd spend their time trying to "get that bullet". Even if they did get it in the chamber, the force required to squeeze the lever to depress the safety switch (winchester 97) and then keep it there and to then pull the trigger... Well, I think it is a great home defense gun and a really safe design around kids.

 

[sm]

Tactical.

Tactical 30-30 or anything.

Reminds me of something I read not long ago , that in reading reminded me tactical was attached to hunting and trade tools to reach a broader market.

Article went on to share more folks have defended themselves with non-locking , folding , pocket knives and kitchen knives than tactical folders.
Article continues history shared how single shot shotguns and lever action rifles open new territories, put food on the table, defended against enemies, and predators.

Difference being - back all through proven history, folks had a mindset to survive, had an idea in mind , and how to carry out said mindset, ideas and methods.

This all before Wall Street was Settled of course...where the Marketing folks settled in...

 

[Switchman]

Family Tradition

Having trained two sons and one daughter with various Winchester and Marlin lever actions over the years and watching them grow up and "graduate" to semi-autos of the black rifle sort, I'm pleased to know that there is a large and enthusiastic crowd of supporters for these wonderful guns. George, you just convinced me to take that old 336 in my gun safe and give it a new life!
The defense weapons at my place include (in order of preference) an 870 Remington, Marlin .44 mag carbine, Colt Commander .45ACP, then all the rest. Not a semi-auto, semi-military black, spray-and-pray shooter in the lot.
Long live the lever action!

 

[crebralfix]

Concealed "Carry"

One point forgotten in all this is that it's difficult to pull a rifle out of a bag if the rifle is laden with lots of doo-dads. Lever actions come out quickly and easily. Even the magazine on an AR or AK can snag (though the shorter 20 round mags really help in this area).

I'm sure this guy is knowledgeable, but with the commando assault stance it is just hard for me not to laugh at him.

nemoaz,

You wouldn't be laughing if you knew him. Suarez spends lots of time looking into HOW to fight with tools. This is very different from learning how to fight with an AR-15. One day you may be stuck with a non-tactical, walnut laden single shot rifle in a life threatening situation. Know how to fight and cultivate the mindset.

So, yeah, in a fight, he's not going to square up to the target.

 

[wcwhitey]

"I know I'm pulling this thread out of the grave, but in regard to civilian self-defense and overpenetration- I've heard that any damages that happen to an innocent bystander or someones property in the process of shooting someone in self-defense is considered to be the fault of the criminal, since they initiated the encounter."

Natedog, you are correct sir, at least in NY State. The example would be for instance: If the cops are chasing a bad guy for committing a bank robbery, if during the pursuit an old person got knocked over, hit their head and died. Regardless of who knocked her over or if she even fell on her own trying to get out of the way it would be the fault of the bad guy. The presumtion is that she would not have fell, got hurt or died if the crime was not committed in the first place. Civil liabiity is another story all together, we see that in car chases all the time. When people get hurt the cops don't get arrested, but the departments get sued all the time. People have an absolute right to defend themselves, period. Each state differs on how to go about doing so but you can defend yourself against a felon. If in the process of defending yourself you shoot AP bullets within sheetrock walls and a neighbor gets struck by one you are not going to jail but you are risking civil liability and may just forfeit the same house you are protecting.

 

[crebralfix]

Focus on survival, not liability. Don't get killed or maimed because of hesistation due to fear of getting sued.

 

[doubleg]

"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."

 

[wcwhitey]

I am with you guys in heart. But at some time reality has to set in and things have to be thought through. Having testified for many days and hours about things that most of us would consider nonsense I have learned a few things. More important than the outcome of your decision or reason to take a particular action is the ability to articulate it. It is easy to say better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 when you haven't faced a Grand Jury, expended all the families fortune on lawyers and aged yourself 10 years by all the hardship a shooting will bring. Arm yourself with whatever you wish but to me it seems a very smart move to consider the political climate when settling upon a DEFENSIVE weapon.
JMHO Bill

 

[30 cal slob]

God, I love this thread.

 

[hksw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuvB7j9n-II

 

[Anteater1717]

This thread again!!! It's never going to die.

 

[tarrigoni]

Ok, stupid question -

Can you use the 308ME in a 30-30 Win rifle?

 

[Joe Meyer]

If "308ME" means .308 Marlin Express, NO WAY!

 

[ZeSpectre]

This thread again!!! It's never going to die.

Gosh I hope not, I LOVE this thread! Y'all don't think the Duke will come back to fight the zombie "injuns" on judgment day with anything other than a levergun do ya?

Seriously though, I've got enough time with cowboy action shooting to believe that a levergun could make a good tactical weapon if needed. Sometimes it's not about having the absolute BEST tool, but about having a tool that was/is good enough.