I don't have one of these. I have all American stuff. I'm thinking K98, M39, M28/30. Anyone have a strong opinion on a person's first foreign milsurp? What are the things to consider? I reload, so I don't think any caliber is a show stopper. Thanks!
Thinking about acquiring foreign milsurp rifle
- Thread starter Chief TC
- Start date
I'll give you my biased opinion. I'm a quality over quantity kind of guy.
If you already have .308/.30-06 caliber American guns, I'd pick something like a Swedish Mauser. You can shoot more for less pain, and it's something different than a full "battle" caliber.
I have a M/39 but if reloading is your thing, I'd get the M28/30 over a different Mosin. I have no opinion on the K98 but I know it's great.
If you already have .308/.30-06 caliber American guns, I'd pick something like a Swedish Mauser. You can shoot more for less pain, and it's something different than a full "battle" caliber.
I have a M/39 but if reloading is your thing, I'd get the M28/30 over a different Mosin. I have no opinion on the K98 but I know it's great.
I would suggest an American-made "foreign" gun, such as a Savage British No. 4 Enfield, a Pattern 14 (made by Winchester, Remington, or Eddystone), or a Remington / N.E. Westinghouse Mosin.
theotherwaldo
Member
I'd say, go for it.
They're fun and habit forming.
I've got around 60 unaltered foreign milsurps... .
They're fun and habit forming.
I've got around 60 unaltered foreign milsurps... .
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Depends on whether you plan to shoot it and whether you reload. .303 British, 7.62 Russian and 8x57 are probably easier to source than most other foreign chamberings from the WWII era. I personally like the weirder stuff, but making handloads for some can involve caseforming and/or hard-to-source dies and brass.
Right now Swiss firearms are pretty affordable and very satisfying to shoot if you can source/make ammo. French stuff is getting scarcer and more expensive, so if you see something you want move fast.
Right now Swiss firearms are pretty affordable and very satisfying to shoot if you can source/make ammo. French stuff is getting scarcer and more expensive, so if you see something you want move fast.
eastbank
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,021
the finnish m-39 is hard to beat along with swedish m-96. i have them both and on any given day they are hard to beat with the right loads./
Another one to consider is the Argentine M1909; while the ammo is not as common as some of the others, it's far from rare, and the rifles themselves are very good shooters.
CapnMac
Member
There are some good deals available on French rifles, and they are often in remarkable condition.
The Swiss rifles are really nice, and that keeps their price pretty high in the US (about twice the price in Switzerland)
Best feature of the Swiss rifles is that they only have the one ammo--and once you get a your formula for GP11 sorted, you can feed them all.
The Italian rifles are a mixed bag. Finding examples that are not abused is complicated. But, the ones that shoot do so remarkably well. 6.5carcano can be very pleasant to shoot. The 7.5 is not bad, either, if a tad stout in carbine-length rifles. If there's a 'sin' to assign to the Italian rifles, it's that there are so many variations, and it's easy to get caught up in trying to collect them all. You also do need to accept that the Italians went to a very simple, near soldier-proof, sight, which can feel crude and less accurate if you are not used to it. It's a 4-8 MOA sight for a 4-8 MOA rifle.
Japanese rifles can be a real hoot. The trick of that is often to look past a beat-up finish. Especially if collecting shooters versus collectables. 6.5japanse is a creampuff to shoot. The 7.7 not as much, but no worse than 30-06 (if illustrative of why using your MG ammo as a rifle ammo might not be super-smart).
There's a reputation the Italian and Japanese rifles have, of being "junk," that keeps the prices low. This can be turned to a person's advantage, with skill and a pot full of luck.
Now, Mauser rifles are a world of their own. The range of calibers, national markings, lengths, is flat-out staggering. That being said, the wehrbois have pretty much ruined the K98k market.
UK rifles are an option, but they have become pretty spendy in the collectibles side of things. The Mk VII ammo has been pretty much shot through. And, while it's not a complicated loading, finding the radiused rim cartridges (which don't rim-lock) has become spendy--directly due to the number of sport shooters wanting them for competition purposes world-wide.
Self-loading rifles are near a thing unto themselves. Not necessaily in a bad way. FAL, G3, AR-10, Galil, and their ilk can also be fun to have in a collection.
The Swiss rifles are really nice, and that keeps their price pretty high in the US (about twice the price in Switzerland)
Best feature of the Swiss rifles is that they only have the one ammo--and once you get a your formula for GP11 sorted, you can feed them all.
The Italian rifles are a mixed bag. Finding examples that are not abused is complicated. But, the ones that shoot do so remarkably well. 6.5carcano can be very pleasant to shoot. The 7.5 is not bad, either, if a tad stout in carbine-length rifles. If there's a 'sin' to assign to the Italian rifles, it's that there are so many variations, and it's easy to get caught up in trying to collect them all. You also do need to accept that the Italians went to a very simple, near soldier-proof, sight, which can feel crude and less accurate if you are not used to it. It's a 4-8 MOA sight for a 4-8 MOA rifle.
Japanese rifles can be a real hoot. The trick of that is often to look past a beat-up finish. Especially if collecting shooters versus collectables. 6.5japanse is a creampuff to shoot. The 7.7 not as much, but no worse than 30-06 (if illustrative of why using your MG ammo as a rifle ammo might not be super-smart).
There's a reputation the Italian and Japanese rifles have, of being "junk," that keeps the prices low. This can be turned to a person's advantage, with skill and a pot full of luck.
Now, Mauser rifles are a world of their own. The range of calibers, national markings, lengths, is flat-out staggering. That being said, the wehrbois have pretty much ruined the K98k market.
UK rifles are an option, but they have become pretty spendy in the collectibles side of things. The Mk VII ammo has been pretty much shot through. And, while it's not a complicated loading, finding the radiused rim cartridges (which don't rim-lock) has become spendy--directly due to the number of sport shooters wanting them for competition purposes world-wide.
Self-loading rifles are near a thing unto themselves. Not necessaily in a bad way. FAL, G3, AR-10, Galil, and their ilk can also be fun to have in a collection.
eastbank
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,021
Roverguy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2021
- Messages
- 900
All of the Mausers are great. I have 1871, M96, Gewehr 98, and a M49 Persian. But it depends on what you are after: a piece of history: Lee Enfield; piece of amazing technology: Schmidt-Reuben; piece of krap: Carcano (just kidding, Carcano is unfairly maligned mainly due to its odd-sized 6.5mm bullet).
Thanks for the details explanation CapnMac. Lots to choose from. What do you mean wehrbois has ruined the K98 market? Since the 1903 design is from the Mauser, it feels like I have a Mauser variant already, so thinking something different but I don't want to case form. Reloading is fine. Thanks!
PistoleroWadcutterGANG
Member
Launching a 170-grain cast "Cruise Missile" from a Swedish mouser, sublime!
Gun-Reck
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2023
- Messages
- 598
Hard to beat a M96/38 Swedish Mauser chambered in 6.5x55mm.
I read most folks seen to love the Swedish Mauser. Definitely seems like one of the top ones to consider. Thanks for all the replies thus far. Great to have access to so many experiences and opinions.
eastbank
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,021
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Ive had almost all the classic milsurps at one point or another and Enfields are still my favorite.
You can find them in .303, .410, .22 and .308.
You can find them in .303, .410, .22 and .308.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,286
I’m a fan of sporterized Mauser actions
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Swedish stuff is really good. The swiss stuff is top notch, if you get that then everything else will seem poor. British stuff is really good as well, but the Lee-Enfield action shows it's date from the black powder days compared to the reinforced mauser style action.
The swiss rifles should be a fun project especially if you reload. Getting GP11 clone ammo down is a challenge in of itself.
There's deals on Italian right now, the Carcanos. That's been my bin lately. You can find lots of them in great shape, just with cosmoline on them.
The swiss rifles should be a fun project especially if you reload. Getting GP11 clone ammo down is a challenge in of itself.
There's deals on Italian right now, the Carcanos. That's been my bin lately. You can find lots of them in great shape, just with cosmoline on them.
PistoleroWadcutterGANG
Member
OP, what are you interested in. If you want to get down to it 99% of the stuff out there is based around the Mauser action. If you don't want that again it really narrows the field down, Russia, France, Italy are all that come to mind.
You might think of something in 7mm mauser, lots of folks really like that cartridge just like the like the 6mm flavors.
Nothing is really cheap anymore, even a Mosin. There are a few things I think are must experience. If you don't have an American shot gun yet you might think about that one, it is unique to the US and it often flys under the radar for those just getting the ball rolling.
You might think of something in 7mm mauser, lots of folks really like that cartridge just like the like the 6mm flavors.
Nothing is really cheap anymore, even a Mosin. There are a few things I think are must experience. If you don't have an American shot gun yet you might think about that one, it is unique to the US and it often flys under the radar for those just getting the ball rolling.
I would start looking for a nice K98,
thats kind of the go-to foreign milsurp, it seems. And it would make a great accompaniment to its adversaries, your American milsurps.
Not to mention that its a rabbit hole that will consume many hours of research if you don't want to get burned. Thats not everyone's thing, but there is a lot of info out there, which is fun when you are researching a new gun.
thats kind of the go-to foreign milsurp, it seems. And it would make a great accompaniment to its adversaries, your American milsurps.
Not to mention that its a rabbit hole that will consume many hours of research if you don't want to get burned. Thats not everyone's thing, but there is a lot of info out there, which is fun when you are researching a new gun.
Another good reason to reload.
Well I like the idea of a Swedish Mauser. Yes, seems everything is based off the Mauser and I have a 1903A3. A Finnish M28/30 seems appealing since it is a Mosin and something different than I have. I guess I can look closer at French and Italian stuff. Thanks everyone.
Personally I don't see why today anyone would bother with surplus ammo, it is darn near as expensive as modern or perhaps even more.
Running corrosive ammo is just a pain, even at .40 per bang it was not worth it to me, and modern, or better yet my hand loads shoot better.