This place doesn't sound like The High Road anymore...

[tetchaje1]

Because you're getting caught in the "us" versus "them" mindset, just like you're supposed to.

Some of us hated what Clinton did and got away with. I was amazed by the lengths Democrats would go to in order to minimize the wrongs that were coming to light under Clinton. I thought that I had found a refuge in TFL -- a place where rational people saw through the hype.

Then Bush got in office, and it got worse. Except this time, it was the Republicans who were going out of their way to minimize the damage.

It turns out it's not about "freedom," or "smaller government," or "principles," or anything else. It's about rooting for your team and boo-hissing the opponent. It doesn't matter how bad things get, so long as it's our guy making it that way. Hooray for us!

Guys, tyrrany is tyrrany. Lost freedoms are gone no matter who took them away. The dollars spent on larger government are a debt we're all gonna have to face, and it's not any better that it happened under Bush's watch.

It's disgusting. Look around. Is this the country you want? Do you like the way we're headed? If not, then why work so hard to defend the guy most responsible, even if you do believe it'd be worse if the other guy had won?

Here's a hint: we're losing this country, and everything it's stood for since its inception. The fact that "at least Gore or Kerry would have made it worse" (if you call it a fact -- republican legislatures seem to at least fight Democrat executives occasionally) doesn't do anything to mitigate the damage that's been done under your guy.

I agree, and I feel that you're argument was strengthened by the fact that you presented it (as usual) without childish attacks and name calling.

I voted for Bush because I couldn't imagine what kind of injustices and infringements upon my rights would be played out under a Kerry administration. What I got was a whole bunch of different infringements that are no less serious, they are just different. I have been so disgusted with both parties lately that in the next election, if neither party can field a respectable, Constitution-abiding candidate then I will vote third party or independent.

 

[pax]

WT ~

No, but obeyance of the rules of civility as expressed by Oleg Volk is a requirement for participation on THR. See the link in my post above for more information.

pax

 

[Colt]

Wholeheartedly agree with the initial poster.

If it weren't for the "ignore" functionality of this forum, I'd have left for good long ago.

It's so refreshing to see the same, tired, rabid L&P posters come up with only their name displayed, and none of their thoughts. We all know who these posters are, and by removing them, you're not missing anything you haven't heard them spout 20 times before.

The absence of the ignored posts also allows you to actually see the thoughts of others on both sides of the issue, whose thoughts are no longer lost in the 8 paragraph-long postingss of the other empty-minded political talking point hacks.

Look into the ignore list functionality. You'll be glad you did.

 

[fourays2]

I
I voted for Bush because I couldn't imagine what kind of injustices and infringements upon my rights would be played out under a Kerry administration. What I got was a whole bunch of different infringements that are no less serious, they are just different. I have been so disgusted with both parties lately that in the next election, if neither party can field a respectable, Constitution-abiding candidate then I will vote third party or independent.

this sums up exactly how I feel. unfortunatley the president miss-took a vote against john kerry as a vote for himself. we need to remind him that he was only just the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[Oleg Volk]

A perfect command of the English language and obeyance of the 'Rules of Civility' expressed by young George Washington should not be required to participate in THR.

As pax said, civility IS required. Some here wonder why few Democrats join or post...could it be, in part, because of the terms used to disparage them. Same for the friends of the people, much as I dislike the idea of civility to revenuers and law enforcers, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by rudeness. Bringing acting people in official capacity to our side would be a huge help, and only possible if we don't start out by attacking them.

 

[hillbilly]

Tetchaje1, here's an idea for you.

Grow thicker skin........................

If you have any curiosity as to where I stand on Iraq, or World War IV, or jihad, or similar topics, just use the search function in "Legal and Political."

Go see what I think about "World War IV" (search that exact term for starters).

You will find that I agree with you probably more than I disagree with you.

However, that said, I do stand by my suggestion.

I am, as one who probably agrees with you more than I disagree with you, suggesting that you might want to grow thicker skin, especially if you are going to post your opinions and views on a public bulletin board where people don't have to agree with what you say.

It can get rough out there. You'll need that thicker skin.

hillbilly

 

[Preacherman]

tetchaje1, I agree with you: the signal-to-noise ratio in L&P has gotten a bit out of hand lately. We moderators are doing our best to keep things civil, but it's really up to our users to inform us of posters and messages that need attention.

You can really help us by using the "Report this post to a moderator" button next to anything that seems out-of-line to you. This gives us early warning of a problem, and helps us deal with it before it gets out of hand.

I'd also suggest that if there are certain members of THR who continually annoy you with their posts, add them to your "Ignore" list. That way, you won't see their posts at all. (Unfortunately, because I'm a moderator, I can't do this, as I have to be able to look at any post, no matter how dimwitted or annoying!)

Thanks for posting this thread. Hopefully, some of our members will learn from it.

 

[bogie]

I think we've had a serious infusion of folks from Democratic Underground, etc., as of late...

 

[Old Dog]

Bringing acting people in official capacity to our side would be a huge help, and only possible if we don't start out by attacking them.

Interesting to note that so many folks (who say they are) in law enforcement join, post for a while ... and then are never heard from again. Could it be that they just become weary of being under constant attack?

I doubt that any of them expect that everyone else will be sucking up to them, telling 'em what a swell job everyone's local cops are doing ... but the constant negativity amongst many members communicates a clear message to law enforcement: we don't like you, respect you or care for your opinions.

Inasmuch as we need people in law enforcement on our side, we (to use a bad cliche here) are shooting ourselves in our collective foot on a regular basis by alienating so many ... Today's beat cop or deputy are tomorrow's police chief or county sheriff ... And we see the way the political, anti-gun wind is blowing at the top of many LE agencies.

Same goes for Democrats, or self-professed liberals. I know many staunch Democrats and ultra-liberals (some even in my own family) who love all aspects of firearms -- owning 'em, shootin' 'em, hunting, competition -- yet there's a very clear message to those who are Democrats or consider themselves otherwise politically liberal: you're not respected here at all.

We are our own worst enemy when it comes to recruiting potential allies to the cause of RKBA.

 

[Ezekiel]

Grow thicker skin........................

I'm not certain that I could agree more.

Too many folks -- not just here but "in general" -- take conflict as a direct assault on their manhood, profession or being. I disagree and say, "from conflict grows change and new ideas."

There are plenty of views here, and elsewhere, that annoy me: but sometimes they give something back and land solid blows right on the point of my chin. "It happens." (Sometimes, I even learn something.)

I consider it a valuable process...

Besides, if someone determines the kitchen heat setting is too high, they have many options.

 

[Iain]

I think we've had a serious infusion of folks from Democratic Underground, etc., as of late...

Bogie, I respect your posts, but this kind of statement bothers me a bit. If there is a problem, and I tend to agree with Preacherman that signal to noise has been a bit off lately, then the problem has come about due to an increased number of posters expressing their dissatisfaction with the Bush Whitehouse in terms that match quite closely regularly used expressions of dissatisfaction with 'liberals' and/or Democrats.

The other thing I'd note is that in these threads that are a slight problem, there is a definite increase in the amount of labelling and name-calling, and that is from both sides.

 

[spacemanspiff]

sooo....i'm not supposed to call the person who called me a doo-doo head a mealy-mouthed crotch-pheasant?

that sooo takes the wind out of my sails.



i really like the 'ignore' feature.

 

[VMI 1991]

I agree with those who have said that rudeness is not a prerequisite to serious discussion, including discsussion that involves differing views. One of the reasons I started visiting this web site was because the discussions here seemed to have more to them than the mindless name calling I found in so many other places. If some one derides you, then instead of deriding them back, I would recommend taking the high road.

As for having a thick skin, I would recommend attending the Virginia Military Institute for four years, then serve as a Surface Warfare Officer in the Navy for 14+ as a means of developing a thick skin. But, just because you have thick skin does not mean you can not participate in polite and passionate discourse.

 

[longeyes]

I've avoided the most recent Bush-qua-Big Brother threads. Probably like many here I am terriby torn: greatly disappointed by Bush but troubled to my core by his opponents. Bush is a shadow of what I really want as my President but his alternatives have no light behind them at all. Bush is and will always be, for me, a very mixed bag and a man whose potential far outpaces what he does in actuality--maybe if he were more of a Texan and less of his globalist father? For me his job was to stop Hillary, with all that she carries with her, from ever becoming President by dramatizing the alternatives still available to our Republic. On that his record so far is inglorious, some estimable, some appalling. I find myself, depending on the day, skewering him for his woeful border policies or wishing he'd wave an iron fist and smite the weasals in our midst who wish America were dead and buried.

We need to find constructive ways to make sure we don't lose this country, that's for damn sure.

 

[Sindawe]

Grow thicker skin........................

I concur with hillbilly. Perhaps my past experience with face to face "discussions" have influenced my perspective though. Its hard to NOT develop a bit of a hide when involved in a three sided debate over religions, politics and guns with differing alliances on each topic, all the while running several processes in two different cold rooms.

Yea, the level of static has gone up of late, but IIRC its done that before and fallen again. If I were to use the ignore feature, I may miss a chance to learn something new.

 

[odysseus]

It doesn't matter where you are from or what your background is.

What matters is how you behave. They say life is 5% what happens to you and 95% how you react to it. Also, 5% of the time - we are not at our best.

There are times when we are tempted to slice a little deeper when we feel someone deserves it (and they really might deserve it too!), but the better of us knows that little will come of it.

 

[Biker]

sooo....i'm not supposed to call the person who called me a doo-doo head a mealy-mouthed crotch-pheasant?

that sooo takes the wind out of my sails.



i really like the 'ignore' feature.

"Crotch pheasant"? Heh heh....I'll be using that one on my Bros. Giving full credit to you, of course.

Biker

 

[dasmi]

mealy-mouthed crotch-pheasant

Someone's a Family Guy fan

 

[Camp David]

If this continues, I'll not come here anymore, and I am sure that there are other members who feel the same way I do. I opened up a couple of threads today that I thought could have some good discussion going on, instead I saw the same usernames that are in every single thread ranting and raving about "ChimpCo" and "King Jorge" and "Shrub" and such and, frankly, I am disgusted with it all..

I hope you stay here... I think discussion should be open to all and that all sides in the discussion, and all opinions, should be welcomed... I sometimes get carried away in political topics yet I enjoy the rhetoric and most times I learn something by reading others opinions!

Please rethink your opinion... stay and profit by reading the myriad opinions that characterize The High Road....

 

[White Horseradish]

Derek, well said. I fully agree.

I don't like name calling and cutesy insults from anyone. "King Jorge" irritates me as much as "Skerry". What are you, 5 years old? Note that I don't mean abslutely everyone by that, I'm sure the guilty parties know who they are.

tetchaje1, you don't seem to be offended by the use of "girly-man", "moonbat", "traitors", and other invective I don't have the desire to look up at the moment. Why is that?

Your intentions are good, but please take a look at your own camp as well.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

I think we've had a serious infusion of folks from Democratic Underground, etc., as of late...

Actually, I think there is some merit to this. I am partly to blame, i suppose. I talk about this board to all my liberal gun owning and carrying friends. They are looking for someplace to learn more and participate in debate.

I would suggest that the majority of the folks from DU, KOS, etc that come here aren't stickin' around just to respond to the folks calling them "traitor"*, but rahter cuz they have guns and WANT to participate in the discussion.

------------------------------------------------------------------

*can't remember the thread, but someone called me a "traitor" cuz I didn't agree with current administration policy on some issue or another.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

I am with Ezekiel.

This is one of my most favorite forums. Mostly because it abides by Oleg's rules.

Lots of forums let the posters use cusswords and other impolite verbiage, but for the most part THR is a place where us ordinary citizens can interact with those who aspire to be in the ruling elite.

It stimulates me to be able to have a spirited dialog with Statists, Republican apologists, War Mongers, Socialists, Liberals, LEO defenders (or even LEOs), DU infiltrators, Fascists, Closet Gun Grabbers, Living Constitutionalists, Law and Orderers (in excess of the powers granted to the state by the Constitution) and all the other "Blind by Choice, Fingers in Ears" members.

Did I offend anybody?

If you don't have a thick skin you belong on a fishing group or knitting or cooking or somewhere. Preaching to the choir put me to sleep.

I have been called an internet commando, obtuse, snide and "Puhleezed" at by some here and it doesn't bother me.

Nobody here has made reference to my lineage, invited me out into the parking lot, sicced the ATF on me or drug me off to a gulag.

Yes, grow a thicker skin or take up knitting.

 

[pauli]

one reason i read and participate here at the high road is because of the expected level of conduct apparent in the name and demonstrated by the staff and the majority of the posters.

this causes me to be all the more frustrated when i can open up a random thread in l&p and see trolling, vitriolic hyperbole, willful ignorance, and even outright hate speech. these are the very stereotypes that we as gun owners have to fight so stridently against, and here we are employing them within our own midst, for all the world to see!

you don't have to be the greatest writer in the world to be cogent and polite, and know how to follow basic rules of conduct. trite witticisms appealing to the lowest common denominator will not win an intelligent debate - it just makes us all look worse.

maybe there's a drainage problem on the high road, i don't know.

 

[pax]

this causes me to be all the more frustrated when i can open up a random thread in l&p and see trolling, vitriolic hyperbole, willful ignorance, and even outright hate speech. these are the very stereotypes that we as gun owners have to fight so stridently against, and here we are employing them within our own midst, for all the world to see!

Again, for those who missed it before:

If you see a specific problem, please report it when you see it.

If you've ever thought, "THR is a great place, I wonder what I could do to help...?" Well, this is it. Never add to the mess yourself, and help us keep the floor swept by telling us about it when you see a problem.

pax

 

[Waitone]

Moderator comments finally explained to me the tendency for threads to go on too long before being closed. Now that I know what that little red button is I can help mods police the thread.

With precious few exceptions posting on boards such as THR and other fall into the category of "informed speculation". To think your contribution is anything more is to miss use the opportunity Oleg provides.