xd9fan
Member
I see this as what you get when both major parties place people at odds over each other over Govt handouts.
Many things on these threads are sad.
Many things on these threads are sad.
This place doesn't sound like The High Road anymore...
- Thread starter tetchaje1
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Berek
Member
While I think this country is becoming a group of Milquetoast whiners about being called names, I do agree that we need to stop this immature name-calling for one big reason.
Most of us here already own guns and the rest either want to or want to know more about guns. But don't forget the lurkers. The trolls. The ones that look for any little thing to use against us. Just print out a few of the discussions and take it to the "leaders" and say "See??? Look how immature gun owners are! There is no way that ppl that talk like this to each other can be responsible with guns!"
In my classes, we use politically correct terms like "harvest" and "field dress" to describe what we do. Mostly out of respect for the ones who have been traumatized by TV & movies to think that "kill" means to paint the world red with the blood of one animal. It helps us to show them that, while killing is part of what we do, Hollywierd has made it gory to sell tickets.
Now, I'm not saying to tread on eggshells, either. Say what you mean. But taking the high road also means finding a common ground. In this case, maybe cutting back on the rhetoric name-calling. For the amount of it, we can cut back without compromising our meanings and still get the occasional jab in.
Bottom line, I agree. Let's take The High Road and put it back on the high road. We're all better than this.
Most of us here already own guns and the rest either want to or want to know more about guns. But don't forget the lurkers. The trolls. The ones that look for any little thing to use against us. Just print out a few of the discussions and take it to the "leaders" and say "See??? Look how immature gun owners are! There is no way that ppl that talk like this to each other can be responsible with guns!"
In my classes, we use politically correct terms like "harvest" and "field dress" to describe what we do. Mostly out of respect for the ones who have been traumatized by TV & movies to think that "kill" means to paint the world red with the blood of one animal. It helps us to show them that, while killing is part of what we do, Hollywierd has made it gory to sell tickets.
Now, I'm not saying to tread on eggshells, either. Say what you mean. But taking the high road also means finding a common ground. In this case, maybe cutting back on the rhetoric name-calling. For the amount of it, we can cut back without compromising our meanings and still get the occasional jab in.
Bottom line, I agree. Let's take The High Road and put it back on the high road. We're all better than this.
Communication is the key, like I've seen before in a couple other posts, some people are like this when they debate 
Then there are those who use their heads and don't go flying off the handle and actually communicate in a way that makes sense, and people see their point of view. Alot of people see gun owners as people that go busting around going bang bang sensless idiots. What they don't see is that they are the ones that protect democracy and belive in freedom for all. We didn't find what we were looking for in Iraq, but in the process we helped free a nation that lived in fear of the government.
After all, the second amendment is all about freedom of the people and living free of oppression and fear of the government right?
Then there are those who use their heads and don't go flying off the handle and actually communicate in a way that makes sense, and people see their point of view. Alot of people see gun owners as people that go busting around going bang bang sensless idiots. What they don't see is that they are the ones that protect democracy and belive in freedom for all. We didn't find what we were looking for in Iraq, but in the process we helped free a nation that lived in fear of the government.
After all, the second amendment is all about freedom of the people and living free of oppression and fear of the government right?
odysseus
Member
Maylene, good words. Welcome to the board.
jashobeam
Member
Respect and Restraint are what attracted me to THR
One of the very first threads I encountered here was the BearCoat thread. It is 36 pages long! I was amazed at how polite nearly everyone was. There were a few main characters who acted immaturely and used faulty logic and made me want to pull my hair out and tell them exactly how irrational they we being. But, because I arrived on the scene 6 months or a year after the thread had more or less concluded, all I could do was read on.
What made me want to become a member here was reading how the other members responded to those who were behaving poorly and illogically. They would (typically) attempt to articulate their arguments in a gentle manner, as if discussing an issue with a friend or colleague. I felt compelled to PM a member called Torpid and tell him how impressed I was with his demeanor and his logical arguments. Though I was not able to a part of the thread (came too late), many members seemed to speak as I would have spoken--only better! They successfully and maturely pointed out flaws in the logic of others in a respectful way. THAT IS THE HIGH ROAD.
Torpid responded to my PM, welcoming me and advising me that I would do well to always keep my arguments on 'The High Road'. It is embarrassing to offend a member in one thread then seek his advice on another.
One of the very first threads I encountered here was the BearCoat thread. It is 36 pages long! I was amazed at how polite nearly everyone was. There were a few main characters who acted immaturely and used faulty logic and made me want to pull my hair out and tell them exactly how irrational they we being. But, because I arrived on the scene 6 months or a year after the thread had more or less concluded, all I could do was read on.
What made me want to become a member here was reading how the other members responded to those who were behaving poorly and illogically. They would (typically) attempt to articulate their arguments in a gentle manner, as if discussing an issue with a friend or colleague. I felt compelled to PM a member called Torpid and tell him how impressed I was with his demeanor and his logical arguments. Though I was not able to a part of the thread (came too late), many members seemed to speak as I would have spoken--only better! They successfully and maturely pointed out flaws in the logic of others in a respectful way. THAT IS THE HIGH ROAD.
Torpid responded to my PM, welcoming me and advising me that I would do well to always keep my arguments on 'The High Road'. It is embarrassing to offend a member in one thread then seek his advice on another.
White Horseradish said:
I never said that I care for any of those terms, I only posted what I saw today. Name calling from any camp is irresponsible.
In all honesty, I've probably been guilty of it in the past to some degree (a la "sKerry" and "Hitlery"), and I am not justifying my actions because that would be the pot calling the kettle black, but I do feel that we are seeing a whole new level of venom on the board now.
svtruth
Member
If I'm arguing
with someone and they descend into ad homonym attacks, I like it. It means they can't overcome the logic of my argument.
I find a lot of the insulting perversions of names very creative (eg Hitlery).
I don't have a CCW, but I am trying to cultivate the maturity to get one.
with someone and they descend into ad homonym attacks, I like it. It means they can't overcome the logic of my argument.
I find a lot of the insulting perversions of names very creative (eg Hitlery).
I don't have a CCW, but I am trying to cultivate the maturity to get one.
Were you offended when that same level of nastiness was aimed at Bill Clinton?
If not, then it's not the tone that bothers you, it's the fact that it's aimed at YOUR GUY.
Surprise, surprise... Not everyone here worships George Bush.
Deal With It.
--Shannon
PS If you complained about the attacks on Clinton, too, then you are standing up for the office, not the man. In which case, I owe you an apology.
If not, then it's not the tone that bothers you, it's the fact that it's aimed at YOUR GUY.
Surprise, surprise... Not everyone here worships George Bush.
Deal With It.
--Shannon
PS If you complained about the attacks on Clinton, too, then you are standing up for the office, not the man. In which case, I owe you an apology.
Bob41081
Member
tetchaje1,
If you don't like the namecalling,etc why bother to read the threads.Some have said " grow a thicker skin", we all need to do this. My first reaction was" Don't let the door hit you on the way out" which is definetly not the HR but that was my 1st reaction.
Bob
If you don't like the namecalling,etc why bother to read the threads.Some have said " grow a thicker skin", we all need to do this. My first reaction was" Don't let the door hit you on the way out" which is definetly not the HR but that was my 1st reaction.
Bob
A lot of people are posting here without reading the thread in its entirety... 
Bush isn't "my guy", folks.
How gentlemanly of you. Thanks for the advice. There is a reason why I have nearly 5000 posts over at SIGForum and less than 500 here.
I think that I'm done with THR for a few months.
My apologies to Mr. Volk as I really believe he has a great forum.
Bush isn't "my guy", folks.
How gentlemanly of you. Thanks for the advice. There is a reason why I have nearly 5000 posts over at SIGForum and less than 500 here.
I think that I'm done with THR for a few months.
My apologies to Mr. Volk as I really believe he has a great forum.Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
My big gripe with SOME posters is the lack of self-control. The fact that there is passionate feeling does not in any way excuse inflammatory rhetoric in this forum. I see actions and hear or read statements "out here in the world" that could put me into a foaming frenzy with the desire to administer a twelv-gauge enema, but I manage to restrain myself...
A thick skin should not be needed here at THR if, IMO, people would behave like grownups.
It is easy enough to attack the reasoning of what one considers to be an erroneous or fallacious idea or philosophy without using emotionally-laden words. Really, it is indeed very easy--and adds credibility to one's argument.
My problem as a moderator is that if I "cleaned up" posts of the bash-word content, I'd use up time I could well spend in worthwhile endeavors. Moderating is way too often remindful of changing diapers.
And in the FWIW department, L&P is only one of many forums at THR...
Art
A thick skin should not be needed here at THR if, IMO, people would behave like grownups.
It is easy enough to attack the reasoning of what one considers to be an erroneous or fallacious idea or philosophy without using emotionally-laden words. Really, it is indeed very easy--and adds credibility to one's argument.
My problem as a moderator is that if I "cleaned up" posts of the bash-word content, I'd use up time I could well spend in worthwhile endeavors. Moderating is way too often remindful of changing diapers.
And in the FWIW department, L&P is only one of many forums at THR...
Art
Ezekiel
Member
Now see: somebody, somewhere, is going to find that offensive. Especially if directed at "their guy" or "thier policy". Oh yeah, it's also, to someone, an "irresponsible (how?) use of a firearm and you're clearly going to Hades."
Those minions annoy me.
Over here? If used regarding me or my theory? Then -- as now -- I'd be laughing my ass off...
That is a fabulous line. "Touche."
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
I can but echo Art's as usual, clear-cut opinion and logic.
Opinion, however deeply held can always be expressed with decorum and courtesy - with no need at all to resort to anything abusive.
It is perhaps the ''art'' of sensible discourse.
Opinion, however deeply held can always be expressed with decorum and courtesy - with no need at all to resort to anything abusive.
It is perhaps the ''art'' of sensible discourse.
cropcirclewalker
member
Mr. Eatman, I enjoy the heck outa the cammaderie and rappapport the gets exhibited at this forum.
My wife will only talk about the fiber arts and Oprah.
In an effort to make sure that I am not fouling the anchor, I searched (I knew there were some rules somewhere)
The string originator thought that there was a bunch of rabid rantings and foaming at the mouth going on. I personally did not see it. Was he using
I don't think calling someone a "Chicken Little" or "Statist Apologist" can be considered inflammatory unless the recipient of such adhominery is burdened with a thin skin.
The thread originator was not even on the receiving end. He was lurking.
Thick skins aside........This is the internet. So, he did the proper thing. He took his keyboard and left.
No harm, no foul. Surely you aren't going to stifle the debate just because some thin skinned lurker pretends to be offended.
P.S. The 12 guage enema, although a stronger metaphor than I would use, was very good.
My wife will only talk about the fiber arts and Oprah.
In an effort to make sure that I am not fouling the anchor, I searched (I knew there were some rules somewhere)
The originator of this string went away, but is this string related to firearms or civil liberties?
I understand that there is software present that puts ??? where cusswords get used. I try not to use foul language, so I guess I don't know.
These two admonitions seem to go hand in hand.
The string originator thought that there was a bunch of rabid rantings and foaming at the mouth going on. I personally did not see it. Was he using
?
I don't think calling someone a "Chicken Little" or "Statist Apologist" can be considered inflammatory unless the recipient of such adhominery is burdened with a thin skin.
The thread originator was not even on the receiving end. He was lurking.
Thick skins aside........This is the internet. So, he did the proper thing. He took his keyboard and left.
No harm, no foul. Surely you aren't going to stifle the debate just because some thin skinned lurker pretends to be offended.
P.S. The 12 guage enema, although a stronger metaphor than I would use, was very good.
I always thought people were free to express their opinions...So some might not approve of the current administration...I know I've wondered a time or two why certain things have been chosen (war in Iraq, the horrible dealings with illegals etc)...But I also know that America is a free country, and people have the right to criticise or poke fun at our government...It's part of what being an American is about...
The King Jorge stuff imho is amusing at times..although sometimes I wonder if El Presidante might be more appropriate The internet isn't really designed for people with sensitivities....If you don't like something, skip over it..no one but yourself forces you to read a post...If you don't like it, skip over it but don't punish the whole board over the actions of a few...
People vent, they feel better, they move on....If our current administration handled things better, I'm sure you'd see less dissent and more supporters...I'm rather curious to see how the proposed southern boundary wall will go.....I'd love nothing more then to see our administration do something about the illegals for a change.....
Mneme
The King Jorge stuff imho is amusing at times..although sometimes I wonder if El Presidante might be more appropriate
The internet isn't really designed for people with sensitivities....If you don't like something, skip over it..no one but yourself forces you to read a post...If you don't like it, skip over it but don't punish the whole board over the actions of a few...People vent, they feel better, they move on....If our current administration handled things better, I'm sure you'd see less dissent and more supporters...I'm rather curious to see how the proposed southern boundary wall will go.....I'd love nothing more then to see our administration do something about the illegals for a change.....
Mneme
Igloodude
Member
cropcirclewalker said:
It isn't necessarily inflammatory, however it falls afoul of personal attacks are prohibited, isn't particularly in a well-mannered form, and knocks up against Attack the argument, not the arguer.
bogie
Member
It'd be _real_ interesting to see how many of the political-heavy posters know the difference between a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge... A .45 LC and a .45 ACP... A .357 and a .38...
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
so, indulge me here. do i understand you correctly in that you feel the threads author is wrong to politely ask that the personal attacks stop? do you think that the author had to sustain such personal attacks before his request is valid? did you note the reason why the author lurks, rather than posts?
take a look through this thread. the vast majority of responders have agreed with tetchaje, only a few have responded with sentiments mirroring your own. what does that tell you?
here, re-read tetchajes request:
cropcirclewalker
member
Aw Contraire, Mon Amees
So many disagreerers
Chicken Little is a well known character in a work of art. Like Robin Hood or Dirty Harry. Like the Little Red Hen. That is a personal attack?
Statist apologist is no more of a "Personal Attack" than calling someone a NeoConservative or libertarian.
These two phrases denote a generic argument in themselves. They just do it alot quicker that saying, "Oh, you just feel mistakenly that the state can do no wrong, so you are trying to defend the indefensible." Would that be better? Lots more words (and typing) to just say the same thing. This is the internet.
BTW, IANAL so IMHO YMMV.
So many disagreerers
The rules for L&P Where in here is it ok to start up a string about rabid rantings and foaming at the mouth?
Cheese!
Chicken Little is a well known character in a work of art. Like Robin Hood or Dirty Harry. Like the Little Red Hen. That is a personal attack?
Statist apologist is no more of a "Personal Attack" than calling someone a NeoConservative or libertarian.
These two phrases denote a generic argument in themselves. They just do it alot quicker that saying, "Oh, you just feel mistakenly that the state can do no wrong, so you are trying to defend the indefensible." Would that be better? Lots more words (and typing) to just say the same thing. This is the internet.
BTW, IANAL so IMHO YMMV.
CentralTexas
Member
Derek Zeanah said:
WELL said! Almost perfect but it could have used a plug for the Libertarian party!
CT
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
if this thread had no merit the mods would have closed it down already.
now would you please answer the question?
GhostRider66
Member
"Kill them with kindness," my mother used to say. I've found that if you gear your own comments toward the facts, argue the points and not the person and show a bit of friendly and creative ribbing, most of the really feisty ones quickly come unglued and get themselves banned. I've seen it more than once and actually it's quite fun. The mods have their hands full but do a great job here and most of the folks, like you sincerely enjoy the honest discourse and playful banter. Sorry you got a bad impression. Try to have a better day!
bogie
Member
The facts just tend to _really_ irritate a lot of people, who then respond with a significantly larger amount of speculation...
cropcirclewalker
member
I guess sometimes my writing skills can't keep up with my rapid-fire thoughts.
A multipart question.
1) is the threads author wrong? Yes. Please see L&P purpose for existance.
2) Do I think he had to sustain such personal attacks? Yes.
Poke a bear with a sharp stick and you will get to sustain an attack. He was not forced to start up this non-conforming and ill-conceived thread.
3) only a few have responded with sentiments mirroring your own. what does that tell you? Other than that you failed to accurately provide the data in it's raw form such that I am tempted to call anecdotalism, It tells me that yes, I have always been ahead of my time. At least most people that I ask tell me so.
What he did is severally similar to going to a hockey game and asking the spectators to please stop yelling.
This is the internet and I'm darned glad of it.
one45auto
Member
tetchaje1 said:
First off, this is the high road - not the higher than thou road. If you want sweet talk and campfire songs 24/7 I'd suggest you tune in to a Mister Rogers marathon or watch Nickelodeon. However in real life people disagree. Tempers flare. Debates happen. You're going to hear things you don't like, but hey - that's the price of free speech. Deal with it or change the web address to something you do like. Your choice. So you're disgusted? Well, join the club because quite frankly I'm disgusted - with people who whine or who run to the mods the first time they hear something they disagree with, that is. It never ceases to amaze me how many defenders of the Second Amendment spend so much time trying to rein in the First.
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