Thought project - professional reloading setup

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jeepmor

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Would like to discuss the process of starting and running a production grade loading setup. I see machines out there like Ammo Land and others that are easily run in a garage. Wondering if they are worth rebuilding or purchasing to create a side job investment to hedge bets as I plan retirement. Always been a mechanical guy keeping more complicated machines running. Just thinking of what the business plan would look like to pivot to something this direction. I am just thinking about it, but to the point I want a hard look at the numbers, and lets face it, the regulations. Running the machines is easy.
 
Guy I know started out with a couple of the smallest Camdex machines. Bought one of their biggest auto loading ones.

Last time I was at his place, he had 3 of the big ones and still had the small ones that he picked up.

His biggest worry was getting components to keep them running. He had to buy as much as some of the big outfits that remanufactured ammo or be overlooked.

Another friend does it as a side gig, does a lot of small batches for people.

You should look into insurance and taxes first, also check any local ordnances. Powder and primer storage...
 
I immediately thought of RMR--it's for sale. Edit: wrong, wrong, wrong! Not for sale.

All seriousness aside, to be clear, when you say hedge your bets, you mean hedge them to MAKE money, right?

Good luck!
 
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jeepmor said:
Wondering if they are worth rebuilding or purchasing to create a side job investment to hedge bets as I plan retirement. Always been a mechanical guy keeping more complicated machines running. Just thinking of what the business plan would look like to pivot to something this direction. I am just thinking about it, but to the point I want a hard look at the numbers, and lets face it, the regulations. Running the machines is easy.
Click to expand...

I haven’t played with Ammoload machines but have worked with some Camdex machines. If you are doing it yourself for fun and have a lathe, mill and TIG welder, you will stay occupied, until you’re done retiring...

It seems like a feast/famine industry, unless you have some volume customers already and stock enough components to have stuff to sell when the next Panic comes around.

A friend of mine kept a number of them running as well as other machines for a MFG in Dallas for a number of years. I bet he made more money than the owner did but the owner didn’t know how to set them up and keep them running. ;)
 
NMexJim said:
Whoooo weeee ^^^^^^ as above. The liability insurance alone ……..
Click to expand...

When I had a Type 6, I only had to carry $2M in general liability (pretty sure I could have gotten only $1M, but I chose additional coverage). Comparatively, I carry $1M now for general liability for my wife's bakery and our photography business. Total cost is $30-75/month. Insurance requirements are worse on commercial kitchens and trucking companies than on ammo manufacturers.

As a small shop making ammo with only one guy operating in his spare time, getting a couple of Autodrives on Dillon 1050/1100's work fine. The Camdex machines take a lot of time to payback, so a casual dude probably isn't quite where he needs to be to justify it. I helped two friends set up their ammo businesses in the last 7yrs, both are on robotic dillon presses. Setting up the vision systems to sort brass by cartridge, then by primer size and by primer type, plus the cleaning, swaging, trimming, and roll sizing gear were much higher priorities than the presses to do the actual loading.

Supply chain logistics are a pain in the butt. You're small, so you're basically just getting distributor pricing on most components (not exactly a rich retailer margin on wholesale prices), OR, you're buying massive bulk orders - I could never justify for myself to buy non-cannister powders in the volumes required. Getting enough of what you need, when you need it would be much harder today than it was when I was running mine (Clinton and Bush Jr era). Equally, balancing sales & marketing against production planning isn't something many folks are truly skilled to manage. I had a luxury of a relatively captive market when I was operating - I had a customer base of 3 gun competitors at multiple local ranges which bought thousands and thousands of rounds of 9mm, 45auto, x39, and 5.56 ammo - I paid back my first reloading machine within a month just working a few hours a night during the week to prep brass and full days on Sundays, and I was partnered with another gunsmith and trader hosting tables at gunshows every month for most of the year, putting that same ammo on tables with him sold like hotcakes too. Contracting range pickup brass from Ft. Riley also helped a lot too.

There's a bit to think about in beginning any business. Write up the plans, conduct the feasibility study, the answer will reveal itself quickly.
 
Varminterror said:
When I had a Type 6, I only had to carry $2M in general liability (pretty sure I could have gotten only $1M, but I chose additional coverage). Comparatively, I carry $1M now for general liability for my wife's bakery and our photography business. Total cost is $30-75/month. Insurance requirements are worse on commercial kitchens and trucking companies than on ammo manufacturers.

As a small shop making ammo with only one guy operating in his spare time, getting a couple of Autodrives on Dillon 1050/1100's work fine. The Camdex machines take a lot of time to payback, so a casual dude probably isn't quite where he needs to be to justify it. I helped two friends set up their ammo businesses in the last 7yrs, both are on robotic dillon presses. Setting up the vision systems to sort brass by cartridge, then by primer size and by primer type, plus the cleaning, swaging, trimming, and roll sizing gear were much higher priorities than the presses to do the actual loading.

Supply chain logistics are a pain in the butt. You're small, so you're basically just getting distributor pricing on most components (not exactly a rich retailer margin on wholesale prices), OR, you're buying massive bulk orders - I could never justify for myself to buy non-cannister powders in the volumes required. Getting enough of what you need, when you need it would be much harder today than it was when I was running mine (Clinton and Bush Jr era). Equally, balancing sales & marketing against production planning isn't something many folks are truly skilled to manage. I had a luxury of a relatively captive market when I was operating - I had a customer base of 3 gun competitors at multiple local ranges which bought thousands and thousands of rounds of 9mm, 45auto, x39, and 5.56 ammo - I paid back my first reloading machine within a month just working a few hours a night during the week to prep brass and full days on Sundays, and I was partnered with another gunsmith and trader hosting tables at gunshows every month for most of the year, putting that same ammo on tables with him sold like hotcakes too. Contracting range pickup brass from Ft. Riley also helped a lot too.

There's a bit to think about in beginning any business. Write up the plans, conduct the feasibility study, the answer will reveal itself quickly.
Click to expand...


I carry a $1M rider policy also just for giggles. I don't have a business, but the rider is too cheap (as you mentioned) to not have. That amount might cover a really bad accident, but I'm not sure $2M or even $5M would cover a grievous injury or death suit as a result of product failure. I mean the freaking lawyers (pardon Spats) might eat up $2M. Just a guess on my part.

I agree w/ the rest concerning the supply chain and return on investment. That's why banks require feasibility studies. I've built quite a few ROI studies, and a hurdle rate of, say, 15% can be a bear.
 
jeepmor said:
Would like to discuss the process of starting and running a production grade loading setup. I see machines out there like Ammo Land and others that are easily run in a garage. Wondering if they are worth rebuilding or purchasing to create a side job investment to hedge bets as I plan retirement. Always been a mechanical guy keeping more complicated machines running. Just thinking of what the business plan would look like to pivot to something this direction. I am just thinking about it, but to the point I want a hard look at the numbers, and lets face it, the regulations. Running the machines is easy.
Click to expand...
Making the ammo is the easy part .
As with any Business you will need to get State and Federal permits and liscenses .
Here is the hard part ... all the hoops you have to jump through , State Fire Marshal requirements concerning fire , expolsives , gun powder primers ... construction requirements ... American With Disabilities Requirements , Zoning laws , parking requirements ... I couyld go on but I'm getting a head ache ... I used to draw the plans and get permits for Businesses ... the worst were a Indoor Shooting Range and Nail Salon & Spa ... you would think Fingernail polish was an Atomic Bomb Material !
My advice is to check with local Building Permit Office and State Fire Marshall for requirements .
Gary
 
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