Thunder Ranch NIB Problem

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This sounds normal for my blued TRS. I had to use an overhand grip until I shot about 500 rounds through it. Now it's very smooth. The tightness comes from the bushing fit on the barrel. If you use an overhand grip to break it free from the bushing, you'll be able to rack it normally.

When you go to field strip it, take the slide off first (under the tension of the spring). Then take the spring out and push the barrel forward. You can then turn the bushing with a nylon wrench.

You can lap the bushing if you want and lap the slide but the gun will "lap" itself by shooting.
 
And somewhere, someone is standing in front of a safe with his buddy showing him that "This one DOESNT rattle..."

Seriously...have your client shoot it. It shouldnt be trusted for match/duty use until its had 2-500 rds thru it anyway. Yeah, they are tight. The one I checked out was sweet.
 
Bill Z said:
Color me crazy then. Would I trust it without checking it with my carry ammo? No. But I would expect it to run 100% from the get go, anything less than that and the jobis not done.

Who said it didn't run? It's tight. Shoot it to loosen it up. It still doesn't sound "broken" just that it's tight with some sharp edges that need a bit of wearing in.
 
Old Fuff said:

Well your opinion is 100% respected by me, so I can't argue but I guess I should rephrase my statement and say that with TODAYs quality control and handgun builders, only a crazy person would stick one in the holster and trust it from day one :D It's unfortunate that things have become that way.
 
And the answer is...

As expected/predicted...
"All of pistols are very tight when they are new. There is a break in period of about 300rds to 500rds on all of our pistols, there more the pistol is shot the easier it will get to rack the slide, there is nothing wrong with the pistol, it just needs to be shot.
Brenda "

OK, fine....
 
I should rephrase my statement and say that with TODAYs quality control and handgun builders, only a crazy person would stick one in the holster and trust it from day one

On this we fully agree... :D

The problem here is that some people are still around that remember when pistols did run like they should, out-of-the-box, and on this point revolvers weren't even considered an issue. Les' guns apparently do require an "x number of rounds shooting break-in," and he should included some sort of manual with each pistol explaining why and exactly what too do. Then buyers wouldn't (or shouldn't) have unreasonable expectations.

This might be a slightly unusual case in that the buyer bought the gun from an out-of-state dealer, rather then directly from L.B. More so, the receiving dealer had no way of knowing the gun would be so tight out of the box when he got it, and would require some attention (lapping, shooting in, whatever) before it would work right. He didn't expect this on a high-end gun, and I wouldn't have either without prior warning. Considering the circumstances the dealer is understandably upset, and his client - the buyer - may be too.

In years past, on those occasions when I assembled a pistol for someone else it was usually for a law enforcement officer. If the pistol required shooting-in or anything else to insure its reliability I did what had to be done while the gun was still in the white. The piece didn't get blued (or whatever finish was wanted) until it was functioning 100% and the sights were zeroed. I went to the trouble because I knew that the owner would stake his life on it, and acted with this in mind. When I delivered the pistol the owner would sometimes load it, holster it, and leave. None that I know of were ever disapointed, and none ever complained. But decades later I would sometimes run into one of these folks, who would tell me that "their old .45" still worked fine.

In all fairness to Les, given the number of pistols he turns out he probably couldn't do what I did, or if he did the cost would go up considerably. Maybe he is right, but I still think that when a firearm that is represented to be a weapon (as opposed to a big-boy toy) is delivered to someone who might stake their life, or the lives of others on it, it should be completely finished and ready too go. Any breaking in, shooting in, or whatever should have been done by the builder, not the customer. But maybe it's only some old-timers that feel that way. It won't be the first time I was out of step... :scrutiny: :)
 
Fuff - I'm marching to your drummer. I am not upset about the gun, just a bit disappointed that this high price gun needs another couple hundred bucks poured into it before it works. I guess that firing a gun a few hundred rounds is one way of doing the "finish fitting", but I always thought that was part of my job as a smith, because that way I could watch it happen and make sure EVERYTHING was working out properly. But then, that's just me...
Thanks to you & Tuner & all the guys here for their input... I'm still learning.
Oh! and Happy New Year!
 
jrhines said:
Fuff - I'm marching to your drummer. I am not upset about the gun, just a bit disappointed that this high price gun needs another couple hundred bucks poured into it before it works. I guess that firing a gun a few hundred rounds is one way of doing the "finish fitting", but I always thought that was part of my job as a smith, because that way I could watch it happen and make sure EVERYTHING was working out properly. But then, that's just me...
Thanks to you & Tuner & all the guys here for their input... I'm still learning.
Oh! and Happy New Year!
Nobody said the gun won't work. Mine was just as tight and never missed a beat during break-in.

Be thankful you don't have to pass a safe handling demonstration test like I did with a new TRS. Trying to rack the slide to eject the snap-cap to unload the gun was lots of fun.
 
Let me see if I understand.

In other words, WE SUPERIOR BEINGS who are privleged to own a LES BAER pistol recognize that OUR PERFECT pistol won't work, but WE PERFECT PEOPLE recognize that it is merely part of owning a SUPERIOR FIREARM which is PERFECT in all ways. Only a CRAZY PERSON would actually expect a LES BAER gun to work and actually FIRE, because PERFECT PISTOLS made for SUPERIOR BEINGS are made to look at and brag about, not to be dirtied up by actually SHOOTING.

I hope I have made this clear to the PEASANTRY who are CRAZY enough to SHOOT guns.

Jim
 
Jim, who said the gun won't fire? The poster hadn't yet tried. Based on my experience of seeing and owning new Baers, I would be surprised if it didn't work.
 
Some of you have just got to try and understand that the tightness is part of owning a Baer, period.

If you don’t like it, then buy another maker’s 1911. It really is that simple. The guns are not unreliable, they’re just built tight.

I think this whole “problem” is due to a client or buyer not doing enough research PRIOR to buying. I’m sorry, but before I plunk down that kind of cash on a gun or anything else for that matter, I do my homework and know what to expect. I checked out as many Baers as I could and did a boat load of reading on the 1911 forums. I also called Les Baer to ensure I was getting what I wanted.

Mine was tight, but it functioned 100 percent during its break-in (as were most of the guys who posted).

To comment on a pistols failings before it’s even been fired for the first time seems a little premature.


Chuck
 
Jim Keenan said:
Let me see if I understand.

In other words, WE SUPERIOR BEINGS who are privleged to own a LES BAER pistol recognize that OUR PERFECT pistol won't work, but WE PERFECT PEOPLE recognize that it is merely part of owning a SUPERIOR FIREARM which is PERFECT in all ways. Only a CRAZY PERSON would actually expect a LES BAER gun to work and actually FIRE, because PERFECT PISTOLS made for SUPERIOR BEINGS are made to look at and brag about, not to be dirtied up by actually SHOOTING.

I hope I have made this clear to the PEASANTRY who are CRAZY enough to SHOOT guns.

Jim

The funniest thing is that this is now a 2 page thread on what's wrong with a brand new handgun that no one has even attempted to fire and that in all probability will run 100% from day one, if anyone ever gets around to actually HAVING a day one with the thing. :evil:
 
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This is a known item with Baers. They are ALL that way as far as I know and I have handled probably two dozen different guns- TRs, SRP's, Concepts etc...If you want a loose fit gun buy a Wilson-Kimber, it's really that simple. Otherwise shoot the gun and be happy! A Baer is a wonderful thing!
 
I guess that we have different working definitions of "works 100%." In my world, a self-loading pistol that you cannot cycle the slide on in a normal overhand manner is not "working 100%." It is defective, and it should be corrected before the first round goes down the barrel.

If all Les Baer pistols are like this out of the box, then it is my considered opinion that all Les Baer pistols are defective, out of the box. That will likely be my advice to my clients in the future.

- Chris
 
TexasSIGman has a point about an argument over a gun that has not been fired (assuming it can be fired). But it seems that the Les Baer fans would defend the gun no matter what it was like, mainly because it costs a lot of money.

BTW, does anyone know if Baer even proofs or test fires his pistols AT ALL? It wouldn't appear so.

Jim
 
Hey, I've got a car that the motor is so tight on that the starter won't turn it over. It runs great when we drag it off with chains and a tow truck, the dealer said after I drive it about 2,000 to 3,000 miles that it would break in enough for the starter to actually be able to turn it over. It's 100% reliable though, you guys would just have to understand this is normal cause all of the cars like this one are made that way. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Jeeze Fuff, we are agreeing on something, whodathunkit? :scrutiny: Is there a doctor in the house? :neener:
 
Methinks there are lots of people commenting who have never held a Baer in their hands. My "too tight to rack when new gun" is the most accurate 1911 I own. More accurate than my Colt, my Springfield, my other Baer, my Kimbers, and my Brown.
 
Jeeze Fuff, we are agreeing on something, whodathunkit? Is there a doctor in the house?

The prospect of this is absolutely catastrophic !! I will rethink my position at once. Obviously I took a wrong turn somewhere. :rolleyes: :evil:

Incidentally, I once had an opportunity to handle two of Les’s pistols that were supposedly new, and I could rack the slide on both with no special effort. I don’t know if he made a mistake or not… :neener:
 
Bearing the Baer

BillZ shot me a PM and explained what's goin' on with the Baers...and it's interesting. Due to a request not to give it away, I'll add that while slurry will help solve the problem, it may be better addressed with a square pillar file.

Chris said:

>I haven't measured the clearence between the top lug and breechface (I will now that you mention it,) but I suspect that it's the bottom lug that is causing the problem.<

Chris..Check the slot forward of the first barrel lug wall...the one that's right in front of the chamber and behind the second lug. See anything odd?

I've had one Baer in my hands...and it had been fired well past any reasonable
break-in point...and it was still a little too tight in the lockup and unlocking.
I didn't notice anything that Bill noted, and applied a little slurry...hand-cycled it about 50-60 times...and the gun worked as slick as butter. The gun belonged to one of the moderators here, and if he sees the thread, he may want to chime in to comment on its performance after the fact.

Part of the issue was that the hood to breechface fit was very tight...which
forces the barrel full forward and engages the locking lugs under pressure...
front barrel lug faces to rear slide lug faces. A very good lockup that eliminates any chance of slap-seating and accelerated lug wear and/or deformation...but far too tight for best return to battery reliability except with a sparkling clean gun.

So...The bottom line is: What will you be using the gun FOR? If there's a chance that you'll have to use it to defend hearth and home, or to save your old skinny from the wolves in the asphalt jungle...ya might wanna forego a half-inch of the potential group size at 50 yards for loud noises every time ya yank on the trigger.
 
just run some rounds thru the damm'd thing and get it over with...

:neener:
 
Baer

Chuck R. has it exactly right. This is the Les Baer 1911 philosophy, and you either love it or hate it. My Baer was very tight and is still pretty tight, has never malfunctioned in several thousand rounds (unlike most of my Colts and SA's), and is by far the most accurate 1911 I've ever shot. Also, unlike other manufacturers' 1911's I haven't had to change out any parts to make it run right. Do I think Baers are worth the money and the little extra effort to rack the slide, let me see ..- Yes!!!!! :)
 
This is a NIB gun, there was no test target. I am assumeing that English is our mother tongue here! This is not a case of a little extra effort to rack the slide, this is a case of you can't do it without employing something other than your hands. Now, just so you understand, go back and reread the last sentence slowly.
In any case, my client says run some rounds through it, so that's whats gonna' happen.
 
jrhines said:
This is a NIB gun, there was no test target. I am assumeing that English is our mother tongue here! This is not a case of a little extra effort to rack the slide, this is a case of you can't do it without employing something other than your hands. Now, just so you understand, go back and reread the last sentence slowly.
In any case, my client says run some rounds through it, so that's whats gonna' happen.

I know you're extremely unhappy about all this, but we'd all be interested in the results of your firing if you don't mind. It does sound tight even for a Les Baer, but we'd all like to see where it goes from here.
 
jrhines said:
This is a NIB gun, there was no test target. I am assumeing that English is our mother tongue here! This is not a case of a little extra effort to rack the slide, this is a case of you can't do it without employing something other than your hands. Now, just so you understand, go back and reread the last sentence slowly.
In any case, my client says run some rounds through it, so that's whats gonna' happen.
So if you place your right thumb under the grip safety and the fingers over the top of the slide and you squeeze your hand, the slide still doesn't move? That's what I had to do before I shot my blue TRS.
 
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