RogersPrecision
Member
Also....
consider a frame mounted scope, as opposed to one stuck on the slide.
The same factors as above apply.
consider a frame mounted scope, as opposed to one stuck on the slide.
The same factors as above apply.
Thunder Ranch NIB Problem
- Thread starter jrhines
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I have also seen that happen and commented on it in my post. At one time I experimented a bit by installing a cut-off extractor and a block inside the magazine well. I suspected that when the frame/gun was solidly mounted the slide might bounce back after going into battery, and so single loaded the round into the chamber, and then gently lowered the slide with a firm push to be sure it was in battery. Ejecting cases often jammed, but I didn't care.
Sometimes the results were slightly better, but not always. I tested the same guns both ways.
Another sometimes-overlooked factor is the rigidity of the stand the rest is mounted on. If the stand can flex under recoil the results are worthless. This is more common then you might think.
The Army’s match armorers used to say that their goal was to build a pistol that could shoot groups that matched the ammunition test fixture, but I don’t know if they succeeded with this on a 1911 platform. They did with several .22 pistols though.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Just an observation....
My Baer 1.5" guarantee gun is NOT and was NOT as tight as my PII 45 or PII 38 super. The tightest gun was my PII 45. The 1.5" 10mm the difference was when it locked up it was "like a bank vault". Absolutely no play anywhere and when the barrel locks into the slide it sort of "snicks" into the slide.
My Baer 1.5" guarantee gun is NOT and was NOT as tight as my PII 45 or PII 38 super. The tightest gun was my PII 45. The 1.5" 10mm the difference was when it locked up it was "like a bank vault". Absolutely no play anywhere and when the barrel locks into the slide it sort of "snicks" into the slide.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Guarantee
Peter...Was that "1.5-inch Guarantee" at 25 yards or 50?
As you probably know, in the early days when the AMU was cranking up, they selected their match pistols from regular inventories. The criteria was that any gun that would hold 3 inches at 50 yards was accepted...and there were many. Pedestrian guns that shot into 3.5 or 4 inches were returned to inventory to be abused by the conscripts.
Peter...Was that "1.5-inch Guarantee" at 25 yards or 50?
As you probably know, in the early days when the AMU was cranking up, they selected their match pistols from regular inventories. The criteria was that any gun that would hold 3 inches at 50 yards was accepted...and there were many. Pedestrian guns that shot into 3.5 or 4 inches were returned to inventory to be abused by the conscripts.
RogersPrecision
Member
Boy-O-Boy.....
This group can sure run a topic into the ground.....
1.5" guarantee......
With what ammo?
How often?
From a Ransom rest?
Or freehand?
Every time?
Or every 5th 5 shot group?
Excluding flyers?
This group can sure run a topic into the ground.....
1.5" guarantee......
With what ammo?
How often?
From a Ransom rest?
Or freehand?
Every time?
Or every 5th 5 shot group?
Excluding flyers?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
My GAWD! The voice of reason prevails! We need you over here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=176537
RogersPrecision said:Boy-O-Boy.....
This group can sure run a topic into the ground.....
1.5" guarantee......
With what ammo?
How often?
From a Ransom rest?
Or freehand?
Every time?
Or every 5th 5 shot group?
Excluding flyers?
My GAWD! The voice of reason prevails! We need you over here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=176537
RogersPrecision
Member
Fuff,
Edge to edge, minus one bullet diameter.
Edge to edge, minus one bullet diameter.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Groups
While we're on the subject...(This is what I do with rifles while determining
the POA vs POI for final scope adjustment...to get the scope aligned with the bore axis with the windage reticle at zero.
Average Mean Radius Method:
Find the geographic center of a 7-shot group group and measure from that point to the outer edge of each hole, minus a half-diameter... and take an average. That way the closer shots don't get discounted. Measuring the two widest shots only gives the gun credit for the worst that it'll do.
Another method:
To prevent unconscious "Kentucky Windage" during the string, place a
fresh target on top of a test target for each shot to cause the shooter to focus on one shot at a time. When the string is over, look at the bottom target.
While we're on the subject...(This is what I do with rifles while determining
the POA vs POI for final scope adjustment...to get the scope aligned with the bore axis with the windage reticle at zero.
Average Mean Radius Method:
Find the geographic center of a 7-shot group group and measure from that point to the outer edge of each hole, minus a half-diameter... and take an average. That way the closer shots don't get discounted. Measuring the two widest shots only gives the gun credit for the worst that it'll do.
Another method:
To prevent unconscious "Kentucky Windage" during the string, place a
fresh target on top of a test target for each shot to cause the shooter to focus on one shot at a time. When the string is over, look at the bottom target.
AnthonyRSS
Member
I was reading a magazine and the writer was taking the best 3 of 5 (thats three out of five) shots and measuring groups... With a handgun that holds 15 rounds.
Like that, all of my .45s would group really small.
Whatever.
Like that, all of my .45s would group really small.
Whatever.
Kruzr
Member
Baer says the guarantees are at 50 Yds off a rest. The regular run of the mill guns are guaranteed for 3" at 50 yds. There is an ammo defined for this and I believe you get a target with the 1 1/2" guns.
Unless you have a Ransom rest, there are very few people who could dispute it anyway.
All I know is, my Baers are more accurate than my Brown which is more accurate than my Kimbers which are more accurate than my Colt which is more accurate than my Springfield...............but that's just me.
Unless you have a Ransom rest, there are very few people who could dispute it anyway.
All I know is, my Baers are more accurate than my Brown which is more accurate than my Kimbers which are more accurate than my Colt which is more accurate than my Springfield...............but that's just me.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Guarantee
Inch and a half at 50 off a machine rest with a specified ammo lot...including
first-round flyers...from a semi-custom production gun.
Impressive, but I'd have to see it with 3 or more randomly selected pistols...
Kruzr said:Baer says the guarantees are at 50 Yds off a rest. The regular run of the mill guns are guaranteed for 3" at 50 yds. There is an ammo defined for this and I believe you get a target with the 1 1/2" guns.
Unless you have a Ransom rest, there are very few people who could dispute it anyway.
All I know is, my Baers are more accurate than my Brown which is more accurate than my Kimbers which are more accurate than my Colt which is more accurate than my Springfield...............but that's just me.
Inch and a half at 50 off a machine rest with a specified ammo lot...including
first-round flyers...from a semi-custom production gun.
Impressive, but I'd have to see it with 3 or more randomly selected pistols...Peter M. Eick
Member
Note: Many customers request 1-1/2” groups at 50 yds. on many pistols. This request can only be done on 5” & 6” steel models (refer to current catalog). The 1-1/2” request adds the following to the price. This service is only available on Les Baer Pistols. $ 295.00
The above is straight from Baer's site.
When I talked to Mr. Baer on my 10mm, he asked what ammo I wanted and I selected winchester 10mm silvertips. He stated the guarantee was for one full mag a 50 yards on the target you see above if I remember correctly.
Over on the 1911forum in the Baer tab, the moderator who is a Baer employee stated that Mr. Baer shoots the guns in the white, freehand off a rest but not in a ransom rest for record. He then sends guns back for adjustment if necessary. He shoots all guns prior to leaving the shop. Most guns it is just a mag or two, but on the 1.5" gun it is not uncommon to shoot a box or 3 on various tweaks prior to bluing. The 1.5" guns I believe are reshot after bluing for the final target.
Hope that helps.
The above is straight from Baer's site.
When I talked to Mr. Baer on my 10mm, he asked what ammo I wanted and I selected winchester 10mm silvertips. He stated the guarantee was for one full mag a 50 yards on the target you see above if I remember correctly.
Over on the 1911forum in the Baer tab, the moderator who is a Baer employee stated that Mr. Baer shoots the guns in the white, freehand off a rest but not in a ransom rest for record. He then sends guns back for adjustment if necessary. He shoots all guns prior to leaving the shop. Most guns it is just a mag or two, but on the 1.5" gun it is not uncommon to shoot a box or 3 on various tweaks prior to bluing. The 1.5" guns I believe are reshot after bluing for the final target.
Hope that helps.
Chuck R.
Member
Any update on how the rest of the "break-in" went?
What was the final outcome?
Chuck
What was the final outcome?
Chuck
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