Thunder Ranch NIB Problem

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If one is to by a Baer pistol nowadays this is the norm and the gun will work fine. However, there was a time, I remember, when Baer pistols did not come like this out of the box. I've handled many Premier II and Concept pistols that were hand rackable right out of the box and still managed to stay incredibly tight even after a few thousand rounds. It just seems that Baer would rather fit it extremely tight and let the customers put a 1000+ rounds through the gun to get it to the point it should be in right from the factory when he could have his crew do a little more work to make it so. Of course that would drive up the cost, but I personally rather have it right from the start.

I always put at least a couple hundred rounds of my self defense load through any gun I intend to use for that purpose, but having to put a couple thousand before it functions without Torquemada-esque gun handling seems excessive.
 
The guy I got mine from told me to rack the slide 200 times before firing. I did and got it to the place it worked well enough to rack by hand without a struggle. A little exercise is a small price to pay for something as nice and accurate as a Baer in my opinion.
 
sounds to me like there might be a market for someone to wear in baer pistols.

it'd be pretty grueling work, but i think i could be convined to put 1000 rnds through all those new custom pistols for a small fee.

PM me for a copy of my ffl and rate schedule

of course, i'd charge extra if they're bearcoated


:neener:
 
LES

My PII and my Thunder ranch where like that, If you can put the recoil plug on the edge of a table and push down then nothing is wrong, It just need to be shot alot, If he is too fed up with it already I feel sure many of us would like to buy it

Yes les baer are test fired from the factory
 
Chuck R. said:
Isn’t it about time for a follow up?

Has anybody actually “shot” the "defective" pistol yet?:eek:

Chuck
Click to expand...

I was wondering about the LOUD silence myself. Any bets on whether it was reliable or not?
 
Yep - Last Sunday, 300+ rounds, starting to loosen up, still can't rack the slide without a lot of effort (too much for my nickle!), had 2 FTF in the first 50 to 70 rounds. Pulls about 2" high and 2" to the left off the bags at 50'. Other than that not a bad pistol. The bottom lugs sure are nice and shiney.
 
So, 2 FTF's for the first 2 boxes (100 rounds) then absolutely no problems for 200+ more rounds.

Hmmmmm.........

57 posts before he actually tried shooting it.

Hmmmm.......

Sounds like a lot of guns I hear about.


Hmmmmm.........

So how many posts have been made about this gun that was perfectly fine after the first 2 boxes of ammo?

Hmmmmm.......


Just a thinkin' here a bit more.....


Hmmmmm........


Now what was the problem again?


Hmmmmm........


As a Les Baer fan, and owner of his products at times I just don't understand. The gun worked exactly as expected, took 2 boxes of ammo to break it and now if fine, accurate and a nice hard fit. You then put more then 4 more boxes through it with no more problems. What pray tell do you think you were paying the extra money over a Kimber for? You got exactly what we Baer owners expected and wanted. Reliable, accurate, and tight fit.


Hmmmm....
(walks away shaking his head.....)
 
I think it's a matter of perspective. Some of us think that when a $1,600 pistol is delivered it should already be "broken in" if that's necessary at all. Others find this kind of situation to be acceptable. It boils down to the question as to who is responsible, the pistolsmith or the buyer, and the answer doesn’t reflect on the quality of the product, in and of itself.

From a personal point of view I have bought, over many years, a fair number of .45/1911 pistols. Some would shoot machine rest groups at 50 yards that equaled the best that could be expected from the ammunition being used at the time. None were so tight that the barrel had to be assisted in unlocking before the slide could be retracted, and none required any extensive breaking in. This is not because they weren't tight to the point of being a force fit in the first place, but rather because the builder had corrected the condition before delivering the pistol.

Now I find that in my senior years the older standards may not apply, and what once wasn’t generally considered acceptable, now is – at least by some.

Ultimately this is something the buyer must decide, and obviously more satisfied buyers have posted on this thread then any that might feel otherwise. So as is sometimes the case the Old Fuff finds himself on the side of the minority viewpoint.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s wrong… :)
 
Old Fuff,

This is one of the very few times I will be on the opposite side of the fence as you. Please accept my apologies before hand.

When you buy a Baer, you are paying a premium for tight, overly tight to some, but tight. My first 1911 was my first Baer. I did not know any better, I admit it, but being naive I just took the gun out and fired it. You know what? It worked, just like the gun in question. And it has worked reliably and accurately for the last now 10 years or so. This has been true for all of my Baer's.

What this really comes down to is expectations. The buyer expected say kimber level of slop/fitting with Baer quality of machine work and materials. This is the error. Baer makes tight guns that work. His shop is known for it, it is his reputation, it is his "trademark". If he wanted a smooth, "slurried" gun from the get-go, then Baer is not the right maker. He makes the classic "hard-fit" gun.

Now is it the right thing to do? Maybe or maybe not. Is it the Baer way of doing things? Yep. Do you have options to get a custom 1911 done other ways? Yep.




So back to the gun in question.
Does it work reliably? Yes.
Is it tight? Yes.
Is it a Baer? Yes.
Do the Baer fans wonder what the fuss is all about? Yes.
Did the buyer/smith understand what they were getting when they ordered the gun? Obviously not.



(Walks away, shaking his head, wondering about "things" again.....)
 
Fence

I'm gonna sit ON the fence between Peter and Fuff...since I respect both men
AND their knowledge and opinions.

Peter's side:

Baer pistols have a rep for being T-I-G-H-T from the box. They also have a rep for being functional and accurate from the box. A little too tight for some tastes, including mine...but we can't deny that for the most part, there have been very few complaints noted.

Fuff's side:

Would I take one out of the box and strap it on...after a cursory test-fire and function check? No. Not until I had either shot it enough or tweaked it enough to provide smooth, non-binding function when cycled by hand. Not until it passed the 45 degree gravity test...with barrel installed. Rep doesn't matter. How it ran on the range doesn't matter. I wouldn't trust it with MY life until it was slick AND ran through 1500-2,000 rounds without a burp.
 
The "good news" on the Baer debate is that it's much easier to loosen up a 1911 rather than tighten one up. :)
 
Tuner,

What is your 45 degree test?

I assume that you mean will the gun unlock with the barrel in the gun with no recoil spring and the hammer cocked if you tilt it up to 45 degrees?

If so my PII 45acp will do it at 6,776 rounds fired and my 10mm Heavyweight Monolith will do it 4,353 rounds fired. (Note the 10mm is a Baer 1.5" gun.) Not sure on the super. It is on "loan" right now.


Thanks for asking the question. I had not looked at my Baer's in while. Great guns, I need to shoot them more often.
 
Gravity Test

Howdy Peter,

The gravity test is slide, barrel and bushing on the bare frame, slidestop in place. Tilt the gun up and down at 45 degrees. It should unlock and travel rearward all the way under its own weight...and return to full battery in the same manner. If it fails either, it's a bit too tight for lifesaving duties.
 
Peter, Fuff and Tuner, you guys are awesome. It's hard to jam all your info into this moronic head.


Mike
 
TexasSIGman said:
Hmm, I have always heard it pronounced like the aspirin, "Bayer"
Click to expand...

I've always pronounced it that way in my head, but I've never heard it said out loud. I was at a gun show today and heard it pronounced 'bar' and 'bear' by dealers. Of course, everybody around here speaks 'redneck'. Thanks
 
There are some older bullseye/pilot guys that 'entertain' me from time to time.....:rolleyes:
For one thing, if the gun will go into battery 100% while being slowly closed, they aren't happy.
For another......they insist on saying 'Bauer'.....like bow-er.......:scrutiny:
Mebbe they know something I don't..................landing a plane is the first thing that comes to mind.:)
 
Having been gone for the day I missed most of the more recent posts…

Anyway, Peter never needs to apologize for having his own opinion, and he can rest assured that the Old Fuff has a thick skin, and isn’t ever likely to take offence. :)

I think there is some misunderstanding about the relationship between tightness and accuracy. Clearly – within reason – a “tighter” gun may be expected to shoot better groups at a certain distance then a “looser” one. But this observation is not absolute, and many other factors can and do play a part. Also there is a point of “tightness” (if I may call it that) where anything more in the way of being tighter will be counterproductive because at that point the barrel and other key parts may become overstressed. As match rifle makers are well aware, undue pressure from the stock on the sides or bottom of the barrel can case more open, not smaller groups. Therefore I will suggest that the ideal might be something called “optimal tightness,” and that is what should be strived for.

Accuracy of any firearm is usually dictated by three factors:

1. The ammunition – in particular the smallest group at a certain range that is obtainable when it is fired through a special test fixture designed for the purpose of testing ammunition.

2. The firearm itself, when tested at the same distance using the above and/or other ammunition while mounted in a machine rest (to remove any human element). Presumably all of the test lots of ammunition should be fired first in the test fixture to provide a benchmark for what might be the best that can be expected from the gun. While it is possible, and has happened, it is unlikely that a pistol will out-group the test fixture.

3. The firearm when fired by a human being. Obviously this can be highly variable, depending on the individual shooter and his/her performance at a particular time. But this will determine what might be called “practical accuracy,” because guns are used by people, not machine rests.

When I have more time I will address this further. In the meantime others have something to think about, and on the High Road constructive comments are always welcome, regardless of the point of view.
 
Fuff,
I agree.....in part.
Machine rests usually index the gun SOLEY by the frame.
Independent, if you will, from the barrel, slide and sights.
I have seen guns that grouped better handheld, human aimed, than from a Ransom rest.
 
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