Tikka discharged out of battery

[ngnrd]

My Tikka T3 discharged while unloading it during a recent deer hunt. The bolt was half way back when it fired. Tikka wants to see the rifle, so I'll be shipping it off to them shortly. Has anybody heard of any similar issues with Tikka rifles?

 

[justin22885]

be thankful you are uninjured (if my assumptions are correct that you are)

 

[Grumulkin]

I can't imagine how that would have happened as the cartridge would have to have been in close proximity to the bolt head and I believe the bolt in the T3 cocks on locking the bolt closed.

Are you sure it wasn't a hang fire?

The other way I can think of it maybe happening would be if it was cold and some ice or gummy oil hung up the firing pin until just after the bolt was opened.

 

[OilyPablo]

I really know nothing about Tikka design, I too got stuck on:

The bolt was half way back when it fired.

 

[rbernie]

I can think of no way for the primer to be struck and ignited while the bolt is significantly out of battery, unless the cartridge is jammed against the extractor (halfway ejected and the bolt rams forward while the primer sits over the extractor hook). And in that specific case, it's a use error and not a gun issue at all.

 

[dranrab]

I am interested in hearing more details and seeing a pic of the gun.

 

[jmorris]

Yep, need pics of this one.

 

[SwaneeSR]

A detailed sequence of events would be helpful. Just a short listing of what happened when and in what order. There is not enough information here to comment accurately. Also, if you are hoping for a big settlement, your attorney would be disappointed with you discussing this online or anywhere else.

I assume since this was during hunting, the rifle was unforced and in the process of being cleared/unloaded when the discharge occurred.

You all know more about this than me. Sounds like the Remington 700 trigger issue to me Joe public.

Hope no one was injured. Scary situation.

 

[ironworkerwill]

I'm with Grumulkin, I just don't see any other way.

 

[rbernie]

Sounds like the Remington 700 trigger issue to me Joe public

The Rem700 issue was that the striker/firing pin could be released while the bolt was closed (AD) simply by taking the safety off - the firing pin/striker could slip off the sear and have only the safety holding it back, so that releasing the safety would release the striker/firing pin. At no point did the Rem700 fire out of battery; it went BOOM when it wasn't supposed to while the gun was in battery.

This description here is that the bolt was halfway back in its throw when the shell went off. That's either gotta be a hang fire or a physical bobble that caused something *other* than the firing pin to contact the primer.

 

[jrdolall]

If they are like Remington they won't acknowledge the issue even if it is valid. I had a 700 go off on me once for my only AD EVER.

I am with everyone else in that I don't see how it could possibly have happened as described. I do know that the sequence may be hard to actually remember as it probably scared the bejeezus out of the OP.

 

[justin22885]

yeah, the only thing i can think of is the bolt was oppened after a hangfire... unless tikkas have a floating firing pin which i doubt they do, this seems like the only possible cause

 

[rule303]

It is not mechanically possible for a T3 to drop the firing pin when the bolt is open. Do you have any pictures? If a round somehow discharged with the bolt halfway open, I would have to imagine the damage would be catastrophic.

 

[M-Cameron]

question......have you screwed around with the mechanics at all?.....trigger job?

also, do you regularly clean the rifle?

 

[SwaneeSR]

Right. I did not mean this is just like the Rem 700 trigger issue. It just has the same "no way that can happen, you must be crazy" aspect.

I have only heard possitive things about the Tikka T3 and I am actually in the market for one.

 

[Sunray]

Tikka sure knows how to produce a manual. Exploded drawing's on page 35. http://stevespages.com/pdf/tikka_t3_rh.pdf
Only way I can see this being possible is if the firing pin somehow got held back by a bit of crud or burr that let go.

 

[MErl]

Could the primer have hit the ejector? Bolt half way back is about the right spot for ejection.

 

[MIL-DOT]

...Are you sure it wasn't a hang fire?.

I'm with Grumulkin, I just don't see any other way.

I agree, I was also thinking this is the most plausible guess. I can't imagine the primer hitting the ejector, and I'm pretty sure the Tikka doesn't have an SKS-esque floating firing pin, and even if it did, this generally occurs in the middle of firing, with the bolt slamming into battery,not during ejection.
The Tikkas are pretty popular (I love my .308 stainless T3 lite), and i've never read of this happening before.
A rare hang-fire occuring in the middle of an ejection has got to be the most likely explanation.

 

[ngnrd]

Sorry for the lack of description and pictures. I'll try to get some pics soon. As to a description of what happened...

My brother had been using my Tikka T3. He had a round in the chamber, and we were heading back from an unsuccessful day of hunting. So, he dropped the magazine and proceeded to remove the round in the chamber. He held the rifle with his left hand over the mag well and ejection port to catch the ejected round while he drew the bolt back with his right hand. As he drew the bolt back, the live round fired. The primer blew out and unburnt powder is now all over the in the action. The bolt was back far enough when the round discharged, the neck expanded just in front of the locking lugs, and the brass is now stuck there. The bullet is lodged in the barrel just beyond the chamber. When we removed the bolt from the rifle, the cocking mechanism was turned 90 degrees and the firing pin was protruding from the face of the bolt.

It seems to me that the cocking mechanism slipped off of the detent on the bolt and released the firing pin, but I have no idea how or why that would happen.

 

[ngnrd]

I don't see how it could possibly be a hang fire.

 

[ngnrd]

I also don't see how it could be a trigger issue, as the bolt was half way back when the round discharged.

 

[SwaneeSR]

Thank you for the extra info. Hope your brother is ok.

How old is the rifle?
Are you the original owner?
Have you had any problems in the past?
Has it been into a smith?

So a question will be did it leave the factory with a defect, has it been worked on, or has something broken or worn?

 

[243winxb]

the cocking mechanism slipped off of the detent on the bolt and released the firing pin,

Correct answer. About the same here. See first photo, post #15. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=572186

[/URL][/IMG] It had a little extra help.

 

[ngnrd]

243winxb - thanks for that link. It seems to describe a similar failure mode (obviously, on a different brand of rifle).

 

[Slamfire]

When we removed the bolt from the rifle, the cocking mechanism was turned 90 degrees and the firing pin was protruding from the face of the bolt.

It seems to me that the cocking mechanism slipped off of the detent on the bolt and released the firing pin, but I have no idea how or why that would happen.

I assume the firing pin did not break, so I would agree with you on your analysis.

There are mechanisms which if the firing pin breaks, they will fire out of battery. The M1903 has a horrible two piece firing pin and I have had the pins, cocking pieces, and collars break. Then these things break, the firing pin tip is pushed out through the bolt face. Jack O'Connor almost lost a thumb chambering a round in a 03, the firing pin broke and hit the primer before the bolt closed. He wrote the bolt handle almost removed his thumb.

I really like the safety features Mauser designed into his M98 action. Notice the flanged area on the front of the firing pin. This is the firing pin interlock.




There are recesses cut into the bolt interior. If the bolt is in battery the recesses are in line with the shoulders cut on the firing pin and the firing pin is able to go fully forward and hit the primer. You can see the firing pin through the gas port, this is the correct orientation:



If the firing pin were to break before the lugs are in battery, this interlock prevents the firing pin from going forward. As you can see, no firing pin tip sticking through the bolt face.



Mauser actions are very safe, but very expensive to build. Current actions have very few of the safety features built into the original Mausers, and if a firing pin breaks, it goes straight through the bolt face.

Mausers also had a very positive cocking shroud retention. So what happened on your Tikka, probably would not have happened on a M98 Maser.