I'd like to hear from the OP and his rebuttal to the notion that these gun "myths" aren't really myths at all. Is there some anxiety with gun owners buying all they can, as quickly as they can because they remember AWB 1 back in 94? Sure, of course there is. I know I sure do, and I don't wanna be told that a Hi Cap "pre ban" mag is $200 again. (Or in the case of my Tommy gun, over a $1000 for one drum mag)
Time to Bust Some Panic Myths
- Thread starter lanternlad1
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Guns are constitutionally protected. Ammuntion isn't. Especially...handloading/reloading your own ammunition isn't protected under the constitution, nor are stockpiles of components for that purpose. A friend in Greece tells me that reloading is prohibited there because primers are classified as "Detonators" that can be used in the manufacture of explosive devices.
I'm not one of the fatalistic panic mongers on this issue...but I am a realist...and you can expect some sort of legislation to come up for a vote pretty soon. Of course, as with any legal action, they'll ask for more than they can get, and will "accept" a compromise that pretty much gives them what they want...for now.
Liberty doesn't disappear in one gulp. It's taken a nibble at a time.
"Death from a thousand tiny cuts."
jimmyraythomason
Member
The REAL myth is that Obama won't do EVERYTHING he can to infringe our 2nd amendment rights. Plus he will be backed by the House and Senate. After a couple of changes on the U.S.Supreme Court,well........
edSky
Member
not to hijack the thread (ok, so I did), has anyone seen a new M1A delivered in the last few weeks? I put a deposit on one and have been patiently waiting a few months now and I haven't seen hide nor hair of one for sale online.
I think that's a poor argument. The Supreme Court said firearms are protected and judges have very little sense of humor regarding their decisions.
If a judge ruled that voting is constitutionally protected and the legislature tried to backdoor that by outlawing voting booths....well, I hope you like Greek mythology because the Supreme Court is bringin' the Kraken.
Voting is protected, and so items necessary for voting are protected. If firearms are protected, then items necessary for firearms are protected.
I'm telling you, DON'T piss off a judge.
CoRoMo
Member
I see only two 'panic myths' posted (although I didn't read every post) and neither have anything to do with today's panicked buying IMO.
There is nothing in those two items that says he/they aren't going to pass a permanent AWB inside the next few years... or even this year. Mandatory registration and/or a gun tax is not what I'm "panicked" over. I've changed my buying habits because I would like to acquire the very firearms that will be on this coming permanent AWB. And I believe it is coming.
There is nothing in those two items that says he/they aren't going to pass a permanent AWB inside the next few years... or even this year. Mandatory registration and/or a gun tax is not what I'm "panicked" over. I've changed my buying habits because I would like to acquire the very firearms that will be on this coming permanent AWB. And I believe it is coming.
Really?! Well that settles it, I guess we can now buy full autos without paying insane amounts of money for them. Now that the Supremes said "firearms are protected" there in NOTHING the government can do to regulate and controll firearms...
I'd take a reality check and reevaluate just what the government can and cannot do. Ammunition is clearly not protected by the constitution, neither are any of our guns as well for that matter. Ever heard of the EPA??? They can outlaw our ammunition in the name of saving the planet. All that lead is just going to kill mother Earth, didn't you know. Those dirty primers have lead in them too, we'll have to take those away too......... We'll get you some "clean" primers that don't last as long at all and are way more expensive too. We're not taking away your 2nd amendment rights, we're just regulating it so that the Earth will be saved! All of this spells increased prices for ammunition. Ammunition is already so expensive, to raise the cost anymore will basically kill alot of the common man's ability to even practically own and maintain a firearm. Don't underestimate the government's ability to do unconstitutional acts in a round about way.
davera
Member
My take on things - (admittedly trying for some optimism)
Obama and the Democrats have much bigger fish to fry before taking on any more gun control. They have to ram through this boondoggle stimulus bill and some republicans are showing some backbone, a surprising event in itself. If the republicans can push back hard enough that will slow them down with regard to gun control.
<aside>Read the bill. You don't have to read the whole bill, just until you say to yourself ... how is dollars for "democratic constituency's project" economic stimulus</aside>
There are some bad gun control bills sitting in committees ... that's true. But if those in the panic could siphon off 10% of the effort they put into finding EBR's, lowers, parts, ammo, reloading gear ... just 10% of that into writing letters to congress critters these bills can be kept off the floor. A few of those ammo and gun dollars can be used to join the NRA and send a little extra to its legislative action group.
I don't especially like republicans but they are the only opposition to a democratic hegemony we have. Encourage them to fight the bailout boondoggle, and keep their eyes on the gun control bills.
All that has to continue until we get a friendlier administration and congress if we ever do. More likely, we have to stay politically aware and active just to keep what we have.
Obama and the Democrats have much bigger fish to fry before taking on any more gun control. They have to ram through this boondoggle stimulus bill and some republicans are showing some backbone, a surprising event in itself. If the republicans can push back hard enough that will slow them down with regard to gun control.
<aside>Read the bill. You don't have to read the whole bill, just until you say to yourself ... how is dollars for "democratic constituency's project" economic stimulus</aside>
There are some bad gun control bills sitting in committees ... that's true. But if those in the panic could siphon off 10% of the effort they put into finding EBR's, lowers, parts, ammo, reloading gear ... just 10% of that into writing letters to congress critters these bills can be kept off the floor. A few of those ammo and gun dollars can be used to join the NRA and send a little extra to its legislative action group.
I don't especially like republicans but they are the only opposition to a democratic hegemony we have. Encourage them to fight the bailout boondoggle, and keep their eyes on the gun control bills.
All that has to continue until we get a friendlier administration and congress if we ever do. More likely, we have to stay politically aware and active just to keep what we have.
I wouldn't worry about Obama so much, if he didn't have both houses of Congress and the mainstream media groveling at his feet.
Together, they can do anything.
"Imagine all the people, sharing all the world."
------------------------------------
Together, they can do anything.
"Imagine all the people, sharing all the world."
------------------------------------
rickomatic
Member
I thought I'd throw my .02 in before the inevitable lock on this thread.
Anyone can guess on what the new administration will or will not do. But to think that because a couple of your above stated court cases should make us all warm and fuzzy, and believe "it will never happen" is naive in the very least.
The simple fact is that the government can, and in most cases WILL do whatever the H E double hockey sticks it wants to. Just a couple simple examples in relation to the OP's topic.
1. Pittman Robinson Act.
But....you can't tax a Constitutional right. But wait....we all are paying taxes on one right now in regards to that act. How come it's still on the books if it's unconstitutional?
1. Gun Control Act of 1934. If memory serves me, don't you have to pay a $200 TAX on machine guns? I thought taxing Constitutional rights was against the Constitution? Hmmm....guess the legislators didn't read that part.
My bottom line is this. I'll try to keep it as High Road as possible. I BELIEVE that the new administration will try to do everything in it's power to limit our 2nd Ammendment rights. Everything from a new AWB, to restricting CC, to trying to tax our rights out of existiance. If you need to molify your own minds because you helped vote this administration in and are afraid of the blame that will come when our rights are attacked, so be it. But do not tell me that I am being a Polly Anna from having very legitimate concerns about it.
As I show quite clearly above. The government WILL do what the government WANTS to do. They already do.
IBTL
Edit: I hope and pray that I am totally wrong, and would love nothing more than to come here and admit it, and apologize to any who's feathers are ruffled. I'm not holding my breath.
Anyone can guess on what the new administration will or will not do. But to think that because a couple of your above stated court cases should make us all warm and fuzzy, and believe "it will never happen" is naive in the very least.
The simple fact is that the government can, and in most cases WILL do whatever the H E double hockey sticks it wants to. Just a couple simple examples in relation to the OP's topic.
1. Pittman Robinson Act.
But....you can't tax a Constitutional right. But wait....we all are paying taxes on one right now in regards to that act. How come it's still on the books if it's unconstitutional?
1. Gun Control Act of 1934. If memory serves me, don't you have to pay a $200 TAX on machine guns? I thought taxing Constitutional rights was against the Constitution? Hmmm....guess the legislators didn't read that part.
My bottom line is this. I'll try to keep it as High Road as possible. I BELIEVE that the new administration will try to do everything in it's power to limit our 2nd Ammendment rights. Everything from a new AWB, to restricting CC, to trying to tax our rights out of existiance. If you need to molify your own minds because you helped vote this administration in and are afraid of the blame that will come when our rights are attacked, so be it. But do not tell me that I am being a Polly Anna from having very legitimate concerns about it.
As I show quite clearly above. The government WILL do what the government WANTS to do. They already do.
IBTL
Edit: I hope and pray that I am totally wrong, and would love nothing more than to come here and admit it, and apologize to any who's feathers are ruffled. I'm not holding my breath.
Last edited:
makarovnik
Member
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It's the occasional incidents like the New Orleans gun grab that really freak me out.
I don't know what I would have done if the national guard would have tried to confiscate my weapons.
I like the idea of stashing most of your weapons where nobody would ever find them. Just in case.
Personally, I'm not much more alarmed than I was before the election. Just a little.
Hope for the best but plan for the worst.
I don't know what I would have done if the national guard would have tried to confiscate my weapons.
I like the idea of stashing most of your weapons where nobody would ever find them. Just in case.
Personally, I'm not much more alarmed than I was before the election. Just a little.
Hope for the best but plan for the worst.
pharmer
Member
As soon as a mass shooting happens (probably before end of school year);
1) AWB sails through both houses and BO signs it.
2) Ammo tax multiplied by 20-100X.
3) Insta-check records won't go away (like they do now).
4) Waco-like incidents become more frequent in "the war on terror." Joe
1) AWB sails through both houses and BO signs it.
2) Ammo tax multiplied by 20-100X.
3) Insta-check records won't go away (like they do now).
4) Waco-like incidents become more frequent in "the war on terror." Joe
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Not arguing anything. Just making an observation based on many of the rumblings that have been around for the last decade.
Never forget one thing. The power to tax is the power to destroy. There are many ways to circumvent a law without violating the letter of that law.
Characterizing the current buying upswing as a panic is a little presumptuous. I see it as a significant portion of the population aging, maturing, and getting wiser. Many buyers are first time gun buyers who finally realize that politicians might be choking off not just someone else's right, but something they now might find useful.
It's too bad ammo is expensive and supplies aren't responding to demand as quickly as we'd like. I've gotten a whole let more familiar with my .22 and air rifles and have spent range time with new converts.
People aren't buying these items only to turn them in. The pro-gun groups can expect new members once the snakes get active on prohibitions.
It's too bad ammo is expensive and supplies aren't responding to demand as quickly as we'd like. I've gotten a whole let more familiar with my .22 and air rifles and have spent range time with new converts.
People aren't buying these items only to turn them in. The pro-gun groups can expect new members once the snakes get active on prohibitions.
A good part of this panic is directly related to the stated policy objectives of the new US Administration:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/
whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/ said:
lanternlad1
Member
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- 770
"I'd like to hear from the OP and his rebuttal to the notion that these gun "myths" aren't really myths at all."
Many of you are missing the whole point of this thread. The whole point was to arm ourselves with truth and understanding, not random drivel that keeps getting spewed by the masses. I said at the beginning, we all know what B.O. will do, the purpose was to STOP him using legal means.
If we were to inundate him, the Congress, and the media with the truth of history, where would they have to turn? Remember, spin can be used by both sides to influence the general public too.
Many in this country believe that we live in a democracy when we don't. We live in a Constitutional Republic. But the "democracy" spin gets thrown at you form every angle until you have no choice but to believe it. Like Joseph Goebbels said, "Tell a lie, tell it big enough, tell it long enough, and it becomes the truth." Regardless of what the despicable Nazi said, he was right. The liberals know this, and have been using it since the 1960's to turn our glorious Republic into a Socialist paradise.
We CANNOT leave it to the NRA, the GOA or ANY of those organizations to handle this for us, no matter how much more we think they will be listened to. We as a community need to voice our displeasure with educated reason repeatedly. I'm not saying that "they" won't get what they want, but at the end of the day, make them pay for any victory however small, and as costly as necessary. They think that they can roll right over us.
Don't let them.
Show them that the true weapons of the gunnies are not the weapons in hand, but the gray matter up top.
Many of you are missing the whole point of this thread. The whole point was to arm ourselves with truth and understanding, not random drivel that keeps getting spewed by the masses. I said at the beginning, we all know what B.O. will do, the purpose was to STOP him using legal means.
If we were to inundate him, the Congress, and the media with the truth of history, where would they have to turn? Remember, spin can be used by both sides to influence the general public too.
Many in this country believe that we live in a democracy when we don't. We live in a Constitutional Republic. But the "democracy" spin gets thrown at you form every angle until you have no choice but to believe it. Like Joseph Goebbels said, "Tell a lie, tell it big enough, tell it long enough, and it becomes the truth." Regardless of what the despicable Nazi said, he was right. The liberals know this, and have been using it since the 1960's to turn our glorious Republic into a Socialist paradise.
We CANNOT leave it to the NRA, the GOA or ANY of those organizations to handle this for us, no matter how much more we think they will be listened to. We as a community need to voice our displeasure with educated reason repeatedly. I'm not saying that "they" won't get what they want, but at the end of the day, make them pay for any victory however small, and as costly as necessary. They think that they can roll right over us.
Don't let them.
Show them that the true weapons of the gunnies are not the weapons in hand, but the gray matter up top.
TT
member
You hit the nail on the head. I never thought I would see the day when Democratic apologists would be able to dominate so many firearms boards. I’m sick of it.
browningguy
Member
My opinion is the AWB will come up by the summer and be passed, with a bunch of new guns added to it. There is no reason they can't enact things like 1 gun per month limits, additional taxes on guns/ammunition (to pay for the costs of registration of course), and full registration of guns and ammunition. Nothing in the constitution would prohibit those unless the taxes were so grossly punitive (thousands of percent for example) to get the supreme court involved.
You're welcome to your opinions, but being an apologist for the Dems doesn't mean much to me.
You're welcome to your opinions, but being an apologist for the Dems doesn't mean much to me.
leadcounsel
member
huh... Tennessee has a 10 cent tax on each ammunition sale...
essayons21
Member
Why do people assume that the POTUS obeys what the SCOTUS says?
Look into the lead-up and early days of the Civil War. Lincoln repeatedly ignored decisions from federal judges including the SCOTUS. Roosevelt too.
Look into the lead-up and early days of the Civil War. Lincoln repeatedly ignored decisions from federal judges including the SCOTUS. Roosevelt too.
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