To correct or not to correct?

[The_Next_Generation]

Hey all,

I was on a certain social networking site a few minutes ago, and I saw a picture an acquaintance of mine had posted. He was holding his buddy's AR15 across his chest and upward. I thought "Great! A suburban kid is getting out and experiencing something!". Upon closer inspection of the picture, I realized he had his finger in the trigger guard.

I commented saying, "Finger in the trigger guard..tisk tisk.."

To which he replied, "Empty clip." :banghead:

I happen to know the owner of the rifle (a classmate of mine who recently turned 18), and I am disappointed that the owner didn't correct the finger issue, and that he didn't educate his partner about the difference between a "clip" and "magazine.

Should I respond commenting on how he is the only one who knows if the weapon is loaded or not AND that because of this, "putting your boogerhook on the boomswitch" without aiming in a safe direction is uncouth to say the least?

When is it ok to correct someone? When should you let it slide? When should you stop correcting someone?

I've had this happen a few times and I am sure others have had similar experiences.

Other insight and opinions are great to hear as well!

- The Next Generation

 

[Solo]

Can't fix everything that you see wrong in life. Unless you're Batman, I suppose.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Yes, you should correct him.

It's a magazine, dammit.

 

[TNboy]

I would just reply with something sarcastic such as "And if it's not you will be the first person ever to accidentally kill someone with an UNLOADED gun." I'm a smart aleck like that though.

 

[mgmorden]

I'd probably take TNboy's advice and come off a bit comical.

Just something like: "Unloaded" guns have killed a lot of people over the years

Add the smilies. People love smilies . (Seriously - it helps to convey emotion in a medium where vocal inflections are absent.)

 

[Bobson]

You corrected the finger on the trigger - I'd leave it at that.

From my experience, people are only ignorant when they choose to be. This guy probably can't care less whether it's a clip or a magazine.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The most dangerous gun is an "unloaded" gun.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I happen to know the owner of the rifle (a classmate of mine who recently turned 18), and I am disappointed that the owner didn't correct the finger issue, and that he didn't educate his partner about the difference between a "clip" and "magazine.

It's a magazine, dammit.

Really? Hmm... anybody if knowledge of history would know that clip and magazine are really synonymous....

http://www.nraila.org/issues/firearmsglossary/

"CLIP
A device for holding a group of cartridges. Semantic wars have been fought over the word, with some insisting it is not a synonym for "detachable magazine." For 80 years, however, it has been so used by manufacturers and the military. There is no argument that it can also mean a separate device for holding and transferring a group of cartridges to a fixed or detachable magazine or as a device inserted with cartridges into the mechanism of a firearm becoming, in effect, part of that mechanism."

http://www.remington.com/products/accessories/gun-parts/magazine-clips/model-504-magazine-clip.aspx

"Model 504™ Magazine Clip"

For the record, I used to say the same thing, until I educated myself...

 

[Old krow]

I'd probably take TNboy's advice and come off a bit comical.

Just something like: "Unloaded" guns have killed a lot of people over the years

Something like that would work.

 

[BullfrogKen]

You commented on the finger on the trigger.

To which he replied, "Empty clip."

Rather banter about magazine vs clip . . .


He needs to be reminded about Rule #1 - All guns are always loaded.

Jeff Cooper said if we observe three of The Four Rules, the gun could go off and no one would get hurt. But once we break two, all bets are off. If the gun does discharge, only through luck will no one be injured.


Rule one is Rule one for a reason.

Safe gun handling skills are the result of habits, and we build habits through the repetition of behavior. Your friend is building bad habits.


Were it me, I'd be firm about not being around your friend at all when he has a gun until he gets it right in his mind that you can't slough off breaking the Four Rules. I've told family members who had bad gun habits, men twice my age, to put them away or I'd shove it up his keister.

 

[Hossfly68]

"Shove it up his keister"?

You can educate or you can be kinda violent about it and maybe he'll use that finger to pull the trigger. I've stared into the Barrel of a loaded pistol with a finger on the trigger twice. It was being calm that kept me from suffering a 9mm hemorage each time. Now, I've found it easier to simply point out what they're doing wrong and why they should correct it. In that light, here's your advice....
Explain that their finger is on the trigger and , even though you know they checked the chamber for a bullet, you're still uncomfortable with them fingering the trigger. Then, when they look at their own finger like an idiot, smack the living hell out of them with the nearest lamp, look at them on the floor and say, "see stupid? That's dangerous!"
Works every time.. Oh yeah, smile when you do it!

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Verdict is in guys, thanks for the advice.

I replied saying, "I was always told to keep my boogerhook off the boomswitch until ready to fire, and that a gun is always loaded "

Figured he'd go for the minor humor, but still realize his error.

 

[BullfrogKen]

"Shove it up his keister"?

Yup.

I think I know the men in my family better than you. One Thanksgiving in particular I'd had enough of my wife's uncle sweeping me with the barrel of his new, pistol-gripped Mossberg. I told him nicely once that I didn't appreciate it, and not to do it again.


Of course, he didn't have the habit engrained, because he didn't pay any mind to his behavior with a gun. And he gave no pause to his behavior because his mindset was "well, it's not loaded".


When he did it the second time, not even a minute later, I was done being polite and tactful.

THR would filter out the actual language I used, but keister will suffice.


Just the instant I finished dressing him down, my wife walked out to tell us dinner was ready. She heard him say, "Well, it's not loaded." To which she said, "Rick, all guns are always loaded, so don't point yours at my husband. You ought to know better than that. Now put the guns away and come inside to eat."

 

[hso]

Forget the magazine vs. clip issue and focus on the 4 safety rules.

Simply point out that good habits produce good results and bad habits can produce bad results. Being at all casual about having your finger on the trigger is a bad habit. Considering the possible consequences it isn't one you can afford to be lax about.

Don't hammer him and don't be insulting, he's a noob. You just want to approach it from the standpoint of passing on good advice.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Agreed on the 4 safety rules...do we really need to be so nitpicky about the magazine vs. clip issue? Sure, one is correct...but its not a big deal, honestly.

 

[bruzer]

I was handling a gun with one of my good friends. He told me that he never ever puts his finger on or around the trigger until he is on target and ready to fire. I don't really know if my finger was on the trigger but I believe it was his way of letting me know right from wrong. I have heard stories about empty guns shooting people so I make sure my finger is off the trigger.
Mike

 

[Sav .250]

If your comfortable about your comment...... that`s all that matters.

 

[Hk Dan]

1) Clips go in a magazine, magazines go in a gun. Not synonymous.

2) Tell him the next time you see his finger on a trigger the next time he'll see the gun will be at the proctologist's office as they remove it from a certain bodily orifice that should be marked "Exit only".

No excuses, stupidity kills.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Really? Hmm... anybody if knowledge of history would know that clip and magazine are really synonymous....

Actually, anyone with a knowledge of firearms history would say that they are NOT synonomous. Magazines were originally not detachabale and the clip was only something used to load the magazine. Nobody handling a 1895 Mauser would call the magazine a clip.

I will however accept that the English language grows and changes and that the two words are now used interchangably by many. Manufacturers are likely to use both terms in their descriptions so that customers googling their product are more likely to find it (and buy it).

I will tell people the difference if they are interested, but not make a bother arguing and correcting people because I have better things to do with my life. Being as I have both clip loaded and magazine loaded weapons, I keep the two terms seperate when I use them.

 

[Cop Bob]

All guns are loaded... ALL THE TIME... no such thing as an unloaded gun for the purpose of handling... if it is in your hands, treat it as if it were loaded... then, now, and ALWAYS....

If the weapon is static, MY preference is that the magazine be out, slide, or bolt back/open and in the case of the AR platform, the dust cover open so the we can see the open bolt...

And YES, that straighten finger laid along side the action...

Famous last words....."I THOUGHT it was unloaded" I have seen the aftermath bad assumptions with firearms.... it is never good...

Yes correct the finger,,, the Mag/clip thing.... save that for a later lesson so that the feeble minded are not over taxed....

 

[jrhines]

Even a stick will shoot once a year!

Russian gun safety proverb relayed to me by an ex-prison guard (Siberian prison), while I was working in Armenia.

 

[Hossfly68]

I still think it'd be funnier to smack him with a lamp and then tell him, "I told you it was dangerous".
Might put a damper on Thanksgiving dinner though..

 

[youngda9]

Only if you want to be "that guy"

 

[ErikO]

This definately sounds like a teachable moment.

 

[Skribs]

There's a difference between holding a weapon like that for everyday use and holding a weapon like that for a photo. I get annoyed when I watch videos on youtube and they go through the whole safety check on camera. I can assume you safety checked it before you started recording, and it would save time on the video.

There's safe, and then there's paranoid. Yes, I agree, that if someone is holding a weapon IRL, I want it either in a safe direction or where I have made sure it is safe. But I'm not about to correct every photo, where the guy probably safety checked the weapon 2 seconds before the picture was taken, was standing still during the photo, and could easily have taken his finger off the trigger guard once the flash wore off.

Seriously, if you start attacking this guy based off of the picture, all you're going to do is spark an unneeded argument.