To our valued customers...

[Monkeybear]

Why does it matter whether it is called a magazine or a clip? It is like the gun writers telling us to use minute of angle instead of inches. Who cares. I grew up using inches, I understand inches, and I like inches. We are in this hobby for fun and not all of us are "Tactically" minded.

MOA is about an inch at 100yards, so inches is fine.

Magizines and clips are two seprate things. Each one refers to a specific object that actually exist. These two objects are not the same.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I work in a gun shop and range, too. On the whole, it's lots of fun, though I must say, I've never seen such poor shots in my entire life. I have no idea how a healthy man in his thirties can hold a pistol in both hands, aim at a target less than ten yards away, and shoot the living la di da out of the baffles above, the walls, and floor.

 

[Stiletto Null]

THERE ARE NO GIRLS ON THE INTERNET

 

[rangerruck]

done, and done, shootergirl.

 

[flatdog]

If a sign conveniently located on the door through which you exit the range asks you to please return the cardboard target backers to the bin, do it.

The surest way to have people ignore important information, is to place it on a sign at eye level.

 

[Avenger]

To be honest, all else being equal, if my local shop had a female behind the counter, I'd prefer to deal with her. Women will actually LISTEN to you, instead of trying to talk you into something more than you can afford.

 

[Monkeybear]

Women will actually LISTEN to you, instead of trying to talk you into something more than you can afford.

I remember the first time I went into a gunstore asked a question and wasnt quickly given a reccomendation on a gun I should buy; it actually was the first time I asked for a recommendation on what to buy.

I basically said "Im not sure what I want but Id like to leave with a 9mm handgun"(it was the day after I recieved one of my work bonuses). Those werent my exact words but I let it be known that I was there to buy, had money in my pocket and besides wanting a 9mm I wasnt too sure what I wanted. The guy at the counter gave me one of the dirtiest looks Ive ever been given and said and I remeber this clearly "Ive shot most every gun in that case, NOW! tell me which one you want." It was at Collectors Firearms. The man refused to answer any questions about the guns in the case, just glared at me and kept making a point of letting me know that I was wasting his time since I diddnt know what I wanted. After about 3 minutes of wasting his time and not even getting to put my hands on a single firearm I left with a bad taste in my mouth. I was too angry to even go to another store. Ask my fiance', I dont even know why I even went there.


I usually dont mind recommendations, as long as the other sales person dosnt get sore when I dont rush to get my wallet and provided that they know what they are talking about. The only female gun clerk Ive encountered was a Gander when I went to get a P22 ast week for my fiance'. She was nice, helpfull and fast. Diddnt expect anything else.

 

[22-rimfire]

I really try to keep my opinions to myself with regard to choice of guns and caliber. It is no different here, everyone has an opinion on what is best. Here, I do express my opinions. Yes, I know the saying....

If a gun shop tries to "take advantage" of a customer, then I just listen and learn. It could be me. But whether to buy a Glock for $500 or a Kimber for $1200 is purely up to the individual and that is where sales get interesting. Listening to a good sales person is educational.

I find that on basic stuff, the sales people in gunshops are just fine. If you take it up a notch or two, there will only be perhaps one in the store that can help you. Your goal is to be the ONE!

 

[Werewolf]

If a sign conveniently located on the door through which you exit the range asks you to please return the cardboard target backers to the bin, do it.

Sorry but if you're gonna charge someone to use your range then it is the business' responsibility to clean it UP! Not the customer's. Let 'em shoot for free and then the shooter would have an ethical obligation to clean up.

Unless the range makes it a condition of shooting there that one clean up their mess before leaving and so informs the customer prior to their entering the rangethen don't hold your breath waiting for anyother but the most compliant or those who reload and save their brass to play janitor at your range just because some stupid sign politely asks them too.

...do it

Here's an exercise for ya shootergirl, walk up to the next customer who didn't do your job for you by cleaning up after he leaves and tell him/her, "see that sign? clean up yur mess, do it". Let us know how that works out for ya or if that customer ever comes back.

IMO - you're the one with the problem, not the customer. You need to get the heck out of retail because your attitude isn't doing your shop any good.

 

[armoredman]

Umm, I don't know about that, Werewolf. I worked more than one range, indoor and outdoor, and the shooter was always requested to clean up after themselves. Note the word, "requested". I wasn't going to jump across the counter and scream, "Get that cardboard up here, you slob!". Signage like that just indicated to the customer that we would appreciate thier assitance in keeping a clean range, as I couldn't be out there all the time, sweeping brass. I did it a lot, but sometimes it was too busy, and customers would grab the broom and shovel, clean up, and go home happy. No problem.
I saw many good people at the gunshops/ranges I worked at, and some who would scare you to death. Most of those we threw out, but some, who really wanted to learn, we would give some instruction.
The only ones I threw out all the time were the ones who walked in with the smell of alcohol or drugs on them. Back out the door they went, right now.
As for female gunshop employees, my boss at the indoor range was a woman, and a heck of a shot. Also, the employees at the local Sportsman's Warehouse are about half women, and some of the most knowledgable employees at the gun counter are women.
Stereotyping abilities by sex, is as bad as stereotyping intelligence by race.

 

[.45FMJoe]

PS: And for the last time, no, we do NOT carry "clips (do you mean magazines?) for a Jimenez (pronounced: JIM-uh-NEEZ) foh'-five (I thinkthat means .45)." Okay? Okay.

Best post ever.

 

[Werewolf]

Umm, I don't know about that, Werewolf. I worked more than one range, indoor and outdoor, and the shooter was always requested to clean up after themselves. Note the word, "requested".

You are correct sir. The key word is requested. A request is fine and if a customer wishes to perform as requested then that's up to the customer.

Shootergirl didn't make a request to the customer. What she said was:

If a sign conveniently located on the door through which you exit the range asks you to please return the cardboard target backers to the bin, do it.

That hardly sounds like a request to me. That sounds to me more like she expects it and gets peeved if it doesn't happen.

That said I still believe clean up is the business' responsibilty. Do you bus your own table at a restaurant (and I'm not talking MacDonalds, Burger King etc. though personally I don't bus my table there either), sweep the floors you walked on at a department store, do you clean the restroom when you visit your attorney, how about cleaning up the maintenance bays when you pick up your car after having it serviced? No? Then why should a gun range one has to pay to use be any different?

Cleanup is the business' responsibilty. If they want to have customers do it then offer them a refund when they do. Otherwise build clean up into the cost of doing business and don't insult customers by asking them to play janitor for free.

 

[f4t9r]

Take the good with the bad. Every sell helps you keep a job and there is all types of people in this world. Some are easier to deal with then others.

 

[hotpig]

She had me on her side but lost her knowledge credibility comparing Jennings and Hi-Point.

 

[Waitone]

You are correct sir. The key word is requested. A request is fine and if a customer wishes to perform as requested then that's up to the customer.

Shootergirl didn't make a request to the customer. What she said was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootergirl
If a sign conveniently located on the door through which you exit the range asks you to please return the cardboard target backers to the bin, do it.
That hardly sounds like a request to me. That sounds to me more like she expects it and gets peeved if it doesn't happen.

That said I still believe clean up is the business' responsibilty. Do you bus your own table at a restaurant (and I'm not talking MacDonalds, Burger King etc. though personally I don't bus my table there either), sweep the floors you walked on at a department store, do you clean the restroom when you visit your attorney, how about cleaning up the maintenance bays when you pick up your car after having it serviced? No? Then why should a gun range one has to pay to use be any different?

Cleanup is the business' responsibilty. If they want to have customers do it then offer them a refund when they do. Otherwise build clean up into the cost of doing business and don't insult customers by asking them to play janitor for free.

Simply breathtaking.

 

[Avenger29]

Yeah, High-point makes good guns- they are just affordable. That gets them a bad rap for some reason.

Shootergirl, why do you equate Highpoints with poor quality? Jennings, Lorcin, and Raven are established as low quality, but Highpoints are good guns. My parents are getting a pair of Highpoint 9mms (and I am getting one of their carbines) for a CCW gun because that is all they can afford, and you can get a pair of Highpoints for about the price of one Glock... and I will probably have a highpoint for CCW when I turn 21 (just two more years and a couple of months)...

 

[tinygnat219]

Shootergirl88,

I saw by your post that you are a newbie. First, just wanted to say welcome to THR. Second, I wanted to share a story at a local shop that just left me in tears:

At this shop I frequent, there are 3 very attractive women that are spouses or daughters of the male employees there. One day, this older guy walks in and asks to speak to someone knowledgable regarding 1911s saying that he's got some sort of problem with his. One of the women walks up and says, "hi, my name is X, and what's the issue with the 1911?" He looks up and says, "honey, I have a problem with this gun and I don't have time to flirt". Her response was frickin' hilarious: "Yup you now have two problems, 1 I can see what the issue is from right here and I know how to fix it. 2. I am not going to tell you unless you change your attitude." He was flubbering around for an answer and walked out the door, without his gun. He came back 15 minutes later bellowing about his gun. The woman hands it to him and says the problem has been fixed, and that it took 5 minutes of routine cleaning. He took one look at the soot covered hands and apologized. Turns out the gun was flithy and there was a bit of brass sticking out of something or another (the old guy like to reload and reload) that was jamming something. Yes, there was a happy ending after he apologized.

 

[tinygnat219]

That said I still believe clean up is the business' responsibilty. Do you bus your own table at a restaurant (and I'm not talking MacDonalds, Burger King etc. though personally I don't bus my table there either), sweep the floors you walked on at a department store, do you clean the restroom when you visit your attorney, how about cleaning up the maintenance bays when you pick up your car after having it serviced? No? Then why should a gun range one has to pay to use be any different?.

Werewolf, It's called common courtesy. The next time you are at a McDonald's, etc. take a look at the sheer number of trash cans around you and try to recall that if it's fast food, it's your responsibility to throw your trash away. At a sit-down restaurant, department store, car-repair shop it's a different story as they have busboys, cleaning services and restricted areas that that handle that kind of thing and you are charged appropriately in the prices. Leaving your fast food trash behind is just plain wrong and rude.

Cleanup is the business' responsibilty. If they want to have customers do it then offer them a refund when they do. Otherwise build clean up into the cost of doing business and don't insult customers by asking them to play janitor for free.

You are right here, to a point. However, let's say you go to a shooting range where the person before you left their target in the stand, empty brass on the floor and ammo boxes lying around, and you see the guy walking off. Would you say something to him to clean up his crap? After all, it's his responsibility to leave the bay as he found it, clean. I have yet to go to a range where there hasn't been a sign posted for the shooter to clean up the station so the next person can enjoy the same experience he did. A lot of these ranges don't have the manpower, or budget to play servant to your desires and have specific things built in to keep the rates low. I see your comments and just think how downright rude your attitude can be considered.

 

[lionking]

Im in sales though not firerams.Customers generally are not rude but I do have one gripe.....

these days,every day....numerous times a day when I answer the phone they start speaking in spanish not even asking if you do and are shocked when they find you don't.

no habla espanol...uno momento por favor....

"spanish call one line 2",someone take the call!"

even funnier sometimes is a walk in customer,I've had them see me.I look gringo as can be but they still start off in spanish lol!Miami.got to love it....not!What was it the congressman from Colorado said?..oh yeah,I remember.

 

[Monkeybear]

At this shop I frequent, there are 3 very attractive women that are spouses or daughters of the male employees there. One day, this older guy walks in and asks to speak to someone knowledgable regarding 1911s saying that he's got some sort of problem with his. One of the women walks up and says, "hi, my name is X, and what's the issue with the 1911?" He looks up and says, "honey, I have a problem with this gun and I don't have time to flirt". Her response was frickin' hilarious: "Yup you now have two problems, 1 I can see what the issue is from right here and I know how to fix it. 2. I am not going to tell you unless you change your attitude." He was flubbering around for an answer and walked out the door, without his gun. He came back 15 minutes later bellowing about his gun. The woman hands it to him and says the problem has been fixed, and that it took 5 minutes of routine cleaning. He took one look at the soot covered hands and apologized. Turns out the gun was flithy and there was a bit of brass sticking out of something or another (the old guy like to reload and reload) that was jamming something. Yes, there was a happy ending after he apologized.

Great story

 

[shootergirl88]

Um. Where did Jennings come from? I don't have a problem with Jennings at all. Jimenez Arms is a gun manufacturer based, I believe, in Miami.

Wow, Werewolf. Thank you for providing a perfect example of the people I'm talking about. It's funny that you think I shouldn't be pissed because customers don't return the respectful treatment that I, as an employee, give them. My job is not to clean up after customers except at closing time. I'm far too busy doing the things that I'm supposed to do, no, that I was hired to do. And seriously, didn't your mommy teach you to clean up after yourself? Or are you just incapable of handling that much responsibility? Whatever the case, I congratulate you on apparently having been able to find a range willing to put up with your rudeness. And if you haven't found one yet, then I wish you luck.

Does anyone else find it sad that, amidst all the bitching about gunstore employees by customers, the one time an employee complains about the customers, she essentially gets told to shut up?

 

[springmom]

Interesting thread.

At the range we go to, there's a broom out every 50 yards or so. Staff cleans, customers clean, and nobody gets on their high horse and thinks that because they PAID to be there, they have a right to leave a mess. :banghead: I like that. I was there the other day; had just arrived, and the staff kid was sweeping around, while I was standing and loading my magazines. Husband said, "If you move, he can sweep your spot..." I looked up, grinned, moved, the kid swept, end of story. I have cleaned up my own mess and others' before. No big deal. I had big burly men clean up the area right in front of me as I walked down the line, because I was in an ankle brace and they didn't want me to slip on the brass. No, I don't buss my own table at a fine restaurant, but a gun range is a lot more McDonald's and a lot less Sullivan's.

as to Spanish....

I look gringo as can be

Lots of folks who speak Spanish have blue eyes, the same color skin as me (pasty white, this time of year) and are blond, redheads, or brown or grey hair....

Springmom

 

[Gewehr98]

I cannot believe that frame of mind.

Shootergirl didn't make a request to the customer. What she said was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootergirl
If a sign conveniently located on the door through which you exit the range asks you to please return the cardboard target backers to the bin, do it.

Which means there's actually a sign posted at that range requiring patrons to clean up after themselves. Shootergirl is venting because some people simply cannot understand range rules, even if they're in black and white.

I'd like to think courteous gunowners pick up after themselves when at public or private shooting facilities.

Then again, when you're at a restroom in a restaurant, you do wipe your own posterior and flush, or is that the facility's responsibility because you're paying them for the privilege?

 

[Werewolf]

I see your comments and just think how downright rude your attitude can be considered.

And what I see from your comments is either how compliant some people are or how well businesses have trained them to do their job for free. It isn't rude to expect a business to clean up after it's customers be it a fast food joint or a gun range. Quite the contrary - it is the business that is rude for even making the request and arrogant in expecting sheople like compliance.

When I was growing up in the 50's tables were bussed by employees not customers regardless of whether or not the restaurant was a burger joint or a high dollar place that cost a weeks pay for the average joe to eat at. If a business had asked customers to bus their own tables I guarantee you that business would have lost every customer it had within a matter of weeks if not days. One enters a business and lays down his money for something in return. One does not expect to have to provide more than his money in return for that service. It seems though that now a days somehow, somewhen a fundamental switch took place where it is not only OK but expected that the customer provide more than money in return for the product or service he purchased. I'm pretty sure the source of that switch is MacDonalds and the marketing geniuses (yes geniuses) that work there.

It is evident that MacDonalds and their ilk have trained the general public to bus their tables for them so well that people are now considered rude for not doing it. It seems that the MacDonalds model is spreading to other businesses, like - for example - Gun Ranges.

So now - thanks to superb marketing and a generally increasing culture of compliance equals courtesy - that one is rude if they don't provide free janitorial service to every business that asks politely. My how times have changed.

Sorry but I don't play that game and it's sad and troubling that so many Americans do. This attitude isn't a matter of courtesy but is instead one of compliance and a culture of compliance is what we've become. I'll leave it to the readers here to extrapolate where that will take us.

 

[Avenger29]

I don't mind policing up my targets or my brass at a gun range- after all, I put it there. Then again, I rarely go to ranges- my backyard is my personal range.

If you go to McDonalds- you are supposed to bus your own tray. Same as in a cafeteria. They aren't asking you to clean the toilets or mop the floors (something I would not do).

I still don't see how it is a problem for you to pick up your own targets and backers. That is just courteous.

I didn't know about this Jimeniz arms- I thought you meant Jennings. I have never heard of them, though, until now.

Alright- Just looked it up- Wikipedia

(also known as "J.A." was started in August of 2004 by Paul Jimenez, the former plant manager of Bryco Arms. He purchased the molds and machinery from Bryco Arms in June of 2004 and is currently making four models of the firearms. They are now operating in Henderson, Nevada.

Link- Bryco Arms/Jennings

So, they are Jennings pistols- I was right!