Top 10 Battle Rifles

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M14 is very nice, but I don't think it has the numbers or battle history to rank it among the M1, smle, AK, etc.

To me, the best battle rifles are on wheels or treads or floating turrets, big suckers fired at long distance. Artillery makes a huge impact that's not often portrayed.

Regards.
 
Number one in all regards is the AK. As another poster said and I shall agree "If I were going to Hell or another planet and could take only one it would be the AK". Accuracy ha where do people get the idea that an AK cant hit the broad side of a barn? I have shot many AK variants and have no trouble keeping bullets in man sized targets at 200 yards and greater. Reliable, tough as nails, effective round, simple to use, acceptable combat accuracy, yup the AK has all that going for it.

Number two was close but the M-14 gets the slot. Reliable enough, tough, and .308 :evil: when it has to freakin die. Accuracy is a big plus for this rifle as well. It missed the number one spot due to limited mag capacity (20 rounds compared to 30 in most other modernish rifles), size, and weight (both the rifle, and ammo).

Number three who cares? I wouldnt consider what does not make it to the top two when my life is on the line. The M-16 piece of junk IMO (and I carried one before you flame). I have an AR tis a fun range gun but I would not bank my life on it unless I had no other choice. The FAL never did do it for me. It has nothing over the M-14. The AUG :rolleyes: are you kidding? The Garand is a good weapon but I want more than 8 rounds, and detachable mags. Bolt guns :confused: not in modern combat. Now if the list were for historical significance that list may be close.
 
Has an AUG ever even actually BEEN in a battle?

1) M1 Garand
2) FN FAL
3) M14

I am afraid I have to stop there.

I can't count any of the "assault" whatevers as Battle Rifles. 7.62x39 and 5.56 are not Battle Rifle cartridges IMHO.

M14 is very nice, but I don't think it has the numbers or battle history to rank it among the M1, smle, AK, etc.

You do know that the Korean War lasted almost as long as WWII right?

Just because they don't make lots of movies about it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact. The M14 service history is long and outstanding.

I notice they are still using them in Iraq, I didn't see any Garands coming out of mothballs.......
 
The M-16 has had a long run, but I'm sorry. I've talked to soldiers. I will not debate the caliber, as that is a cna of worms I care not to open, however the complaint I have always heard is that it is not tough.

And we all know soldiers never complain about something unless it is a real serious problem. There's this big trade-off: heavy or fragile. Pick one. Of course whichever one logistics picks, the soldiers will complain about it.

You do know that the Korean War lasted almost as long as WWII right?

In that case the Carbine, Caliber .30, M1. Served in both those conflicts, as well as Vietnam. Underpowered? Sure, but a light-weight sweet shooting rifle that anybody can make use of.
 
I AGREE. Battle rifles are not "assault rifles"
heres my list based on a totaly subjective evalutation of numbers built, quality of design FOR ITS PURPOSE, chambering, over all effect on history, and inverse % made of plastic . :neener: im only gunna do top 3. cause no ones interested in what i have to say :cool: and also those are the only ones i think are notable


1.Mauser rifles
The basis for so many designs wich have fought against each other. built by probibly a hundred countrys in probibly a thousand variants, military and civilian. easy manufacturing provided the right equipment. Chambered in many good cartridges. More historical impact than any other modern rifle i can think of.

2. Mosin Nagant
Obsolete before the first one was ever built, doesnt stop the Russian Empire/USSR/ ComBloc from building millions and millions of them. Mosin nagants have fought against itself and won. have a good chambering despite the rimmed cartrage being obsolete ( though still used by armys all around the world for various machine guns an SVD/PSL's) Simple design and vary in quality from "built by the gods" to "built by drunken romanian women with nothing more than a electric drill and a 3lb hammer". still in some arsenals, and as iv said before, probibly still being built in some 3rd world country basement. Historical impact: allies couldnt have won WW2 with out this rifle and the 2 men to 1 rifle ratio of the soviet union.

3. M1 Garand
All the fun of the semi auto rifle, with the knock down power of a full battle caliber. Excellent quality, with a design only an excentric canadian could have imagined. GREAT historical impact. The russians couldnt have held on with out the second front. ( or with out our, less than legal support during the early years)
 
Fuller Collection @ Chickamauga, GA Battlefield

A lot of us will be on the road this holiday week/ weekend.

For those who will be travelling I-75 thru North Georgia, I cannot emphasize enough, the great opportunity you have to view one of the finest exhibits anywhere in the world of Great Battle Rifles (and a few shotguns also), the Fuller Collection of American Military Longarms that is housed in the Museum at Chickamauga Battlefield, near Ft. Ogelthorpe, GA. Take the Battlefield Parkway exit off I-75, and head towards the mountain, follow the signs.

http://www.nps.gov/chch/

http://www.superpages.com/cities/mtg/10507/

Growing up in that area, I spent many wonderful hours during my early years gawking, drooling, admiring, lusting at this awesome collection of great military Battle Rifles, extending from the 1500's thru WW I.

I spent this past Veteran's Day afternoon there. I didn't have a decent camera with me, but did use my cellphone camera snap a few fast shots. Sorry about the low quality, but here's a few examples of what it there:

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Those who are interested in this sort of history would probably enjoy spending several days in the area exploring not only the Battlefield, but also Chattanooga's historically related sights including, but not limited to Craven's House and Point Park on Lookout Mountain, and Missionary Ridge.
 
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pictoblu

thanks for reminding me!
anyone whos gunna be in Western MA, CT, VT area for the holiday. should check out the Springfield Armory Museum. like any day, you can go in for free and look around. see all kinds of various arms, many serial number "1" rifles and the equipment used to arm this nation from 1777 till 1968 and then some. ( dont forget this is also the site of a young Americas first civilian armed revolt, Shays' Rebellion in 1787) AND this saturday the 25th you have the option for a 12$ 1 hour and 1/2 tour of the second floor and get to see 66% of the collection NOT ON EXHIBIT! i mean thats just a measly 5600 extra items over the already large exhibit. ;)

http://www.nps.gov/spar
 
I think the Military Channel's special was covering the infantry rifles of the 20th Century and not getting bogged down in whether they were turn bolts and semi-autos in full throated .30 caliber rounds, or selective fire rifles featuring an intermediate round.

Going forward from the smokeless powder age, here is my personal list:

1. AK-47. It is ubiquitous. It is respected by both friend and foe as an effective weapon, even if the 7.62x39 chambering is relatively obsolete these days. One could make one in their garage if need be and for some of its users, that very need arose.

2. M-16 series. America's "accidental" issue rifle. Developed by a guy in the aircraft industry, first loved by the Air Force, hated by the Springfield Armory for not being invented there, the M-16 has overcome alot to become the longest serving rifle in American history. Yes, it had teething problems and yes, if indifferently cared for it will betray you, but in skilled hands it has become quite lethal inside of 300m. Doctrinally different than that used by the AK series, the M-16 kicked enough butt that the Soviets adopted the 5.45x39 in response to it.

3. The M-1 Garand. Not the longest serving, but did serve in two of the hottest conflicts in American history, performing admirably in World War 2 and Korea. The M-1 was the first widely successful semi-auto battle rifle in the world having served in wintry conditions, mud, sand, the tropics, etcetera while building a formidable reputation for reliability and relative firepower.

4. The SMLE. Not the first turnbolt rifle ever adopted, but inarguably the fastest. Capable of the "Mad Minute" or thirty rounds of aimed fire inside of a minute. Had a ten round capacity and 60 degree bolt throw where most other bolt rifles had six or five rounds on tap and a 90 degree throw. Also features an ugly stock that has the benefit of NOT being one size fits all in length of pull. By customizing the length of the butt, the SMLE could best utilize the talents of the trooper rather than make him adapt to the weapon.

5. The Kar 98k. The ultimate expression of the Mauser combat rifle. It and its predecessors were the most copied weapon of its era. The Mauser's weakness was its limited capacity. Yes, doctrinally, the Germans relied on the LMG to provide firepower, but the use of the PPSh-41 by the Soviets and the higher rate of fire of the Garand, Thompson and M-1 Carbine, easily proved why the Mauser was obsolete before WW2 despite being made handier. Unfortunately for the Germans, all of Mauser's interwar attempts to make the rifle higher capacity were unsatisfactory.

6. FN-FAL "The Right Arm of the West" This rifle gets mention for having served more countries than any other I can think of. Not the best ergonomically, but it arguably could have beaten the M-14 in trials given a level playing field.

7. The Mosin-Nagant. For an arguably obsolete rifle from inception, the M-N certainly held its own across two World Wars. Finn variants show the pinnacle of what this rifle was capable of as Russian examples often look like the product of drunken blind men.

8. The Swiss K-31. Not ever in a battle, but it was the ultimate expression of the straight-pull concept and conceivably one of the reasons that the Germans shelved plans to occupy Switzerland in World War 2, The Germans well knew that General Guisan would spend the war directing sniper fire and insurgency from Alpine strongholds using these precision rifles and their fantastic GP-11 cartridges.

9. The M-14. Conceptually this rifle has been slammed as too heavy, too powerful, and too little too late to fill an unfillable role of taking over as MBR, SAW, and whatnot. A product improved Garand actioned bottom feeder, the M-14 bears mention because it still makes it to the front lines in American hands.

10. The M1903A3. Gets mention here because I am running out of worthy entrants. Basically a Mauser actioned bolt rifle, this weapon gets marks for its sighting system improvements over its breeding stock and the fact that it served with the Marines right up to early 1943.
 
1. Ak-47 and variants
2. M-16 and variants
3. M1 Garand
4. 98K Mauser
5. SMLE Enfield

Everything after that is up for grabs really.
 
You do know that the Korean War lasted almost as long as WWII right?

Just because they don't make lots of movies about it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact. The M14 service history is long and outstanding.

So, how many M14s were issued during the Korean war? :D :neener:
 
stoky's handy dandy TVBS descrambler:
Subtract the four carbines, leaving the six rifles. Invert the remaining order.
:D
 
Several months ago, after viewing the History Channel show, a friend asked me for my own choices. My thoughts:

10. Heckler & Koch G91. Excellent and reliable design. Lack of last-round bolt hold open a major flaw.

9. The M1 Carbine. Issued to rear echelon troops and officers, this rifle ably proved to be far superior to handguns as an issue sidearm for those troops to which it was issued. The effectiveness of the select-fire M2 carbine was not lost upon Nazi SS troops, who actively sought to capture examples of the M2 to carry for their own use.
Cons: the pistol powered cartridge was often ineffective. Early examples had push button safties and magazine releases. In the heat of battle, it was embarrasing and dangerous to inadvertently drop the rifle's magazine. Later rifles sported a rotating lever safety.

8. SMLE, the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield. Britain and the Commonwealth fought two World Wars with this excellent rifle. Its 10rd. magazine held twice the capacity of similar bolt action rifles fielded by other combatants. Rugged and reliable, the .303 cartridge was powerful and effective. This rifle soldiered on through the middle Fifties, and is commonly encountered today.

7. The MP44 Sturmgewehr. Leave it to the Germans to recognize the need for a battle rifle capable of automatic fire with an intermediate cartridge! Modern rifle battles are rarely fought at long range. Ordnance from mortars to artillery to airstrikes are called upon beyond the range of the intermediate rifle cartridge. But when actions are fought with rifles, intense automatic fire is required to win those battles. The Nazis designed the 8mm "Kurtz" (short) cartridge for just such a recognition. Rather than burden soldiers with needlessly powerful rifle ammunition, they instead sent their Wehrmacht into battle with the rifle and ammunition that would set the stage for generations to come, indeed until even today. The Russians learned much from their enormous number of casualties, and Mikhail Kalashnikov copied and improved upon the MP44. See my number one choice.

6. The K98 Mauser. The classic bolt action rifle of all time. Germany fought two World Wars with this amazing 19th century creation. The majority of bolt action rifles since 1898 have been variations on the design of the K98. America learned valuable, hard fought lessons in the Spanish-American War, encountering Spanish troops armed with 1898 Mauser rifles firing smokeless powder loaded 7 X 57 cartridges. The US 1903 Springfield is a case in point, and the US government paid the Mauser brothers a patents infringement settlement for the blatant copying of the Mauser design. Power and reliability personified.


5. The M1 Garand. Far and away the finest battle rifle fielded by any combatant of WWII. This rifle's reliability was proven across the many far flung conditions it fought during the Big One. From the volcanic sand-strewn beaches of Pacific islands, to the frigid conditions of the Aleutians and Bastogne. No less an authority then General George Patton proclaimed this rifle "the finest battle implement ever designed by man." Tell you what: you choose any more modern rifle you desire, and leave me with a Garand. I'll hold my own with you within 500 yards. Beyond that, I'll own you.

4. The M14. While there's more to it than simply an M1 Garand updated to accept detachable magazines, then again perhaps one need say no more than that. The M14 served the shortest service life as the US military's issue rifle. Yet it soldiers on even today. It's 7.62 X 51 (.308Win) cartridge has proven extremely valuable in the long range shooting common in Afghanistan, when the M16s have long since become ineffective. The M14 has long proven to be reliable and effective.

3. The M16. While this rifle encountered painful birthing problems in the jungles of Viet Nam, those have been long since solved. This rifle has served the US military since 1964, and will for another generation. Probably the most accurate rifle of this list. If your M16/AR15 shoots less than 2 MOA, get another. That one will. The myriad variations upon the M16 system are staggering. The short, compact M4 is seeing daily combat in urban, close-in conditions in Falluja and Baghdad. The full sized M2 is still light and well balanced. The 5.56/.223Rem ammunition is light and compact, allowing soldiers to carry far more rounds than any .30 caliber 7.62 ammo. The recoil buffering system makes shooting the M16 a pleasant experience.
Cons: The lightweight ammunition is .22 caliber. In many conditions, it lacks the shock power of larger calibers. The M16 needs daily cleaning, if not hourly. The same close tolerances that produce its amazing accuracy contribute to its succeptibility to mechanical malfunctions. The aluminum magazines are somewhat fragile.

2. The Belgian FAL. It nearly pains me to rate this rifle short of number one. I love this rifle. The ultimate achievement in battle rifles. The gas regulating system allows the rifle to selectively function with only the proper amount of "oomph" to cycle the action, saving wear on the action and recoil on the shooter's shoulder. The takedown, for maintenance and cleaning, is the best ever produced. It's a full power 7.62 X 51 battle rifle cartridge, .308Win to us civillian shooters. The pistol gripped stock helps mollify the significant recoil. Has seen service with more than 90 armies around the world. "The Free World's right arm."

1. The AK-47. Ubiquitous around the globe. As an old friend of mine was fond of saying, "You can't throw a dead cat without hitting one of those!" Rugged and reliable to say the least. Unparalleled reliability. An extremely effective caliber, the 7.62 X 39 has the energy to reach beyond 300 yards. In Viet Nam, it proved a much better cartridge in the jungle conditions than the M16's 5.56. The AK's steel magazine is much more robust than the aluminum M16 magazine. This rifle has been used by generations of users ignorant of its proper maintenance, yet the rifle simply doesn't fail. My own prized Caca Hits The Fan bugout weapon is a Bulgarian rifle with a milled steel receiver, rather than the stamped receivers of most AKs. Do NOT take me on within 350 yards!
Cons: The lack of a bolt hold-open on an empty magazine is a major flaw. The magazine release and magazine insertion are much more awkward than the M16, FAL, or M14.
 
The Garand was probably the best semi-auto rifle of World War Two. Although there were some 1903's floating around during the early part of the conflict and on the home front during the war, it was revolutionary in that it was the main rifle of the US Army. Nobody used more semi-auto rifles than the US. The Germans and Russians had some, but they never outnumbered the bolt-actions and sun-guns in those armies.

On the other hand, the Garand was an odd rifle in a lot of ways. That eight-round en-bloc clip and that terrible weight were certainly negatives. Like American shooters themselves, it was in many ways a very conservative design, shooting a big .30 cartiridge. Apart from the concept of a virtually all semi-auto rifle Army, the design itself was not too revolutionary.
 
The first significant defeat suffered by German land forces was inflicted by soldiers using the No1 Mk 3 SMLE. It was at a place called Tobruk.

You really think Tobruk beats out Stalingrad? Hmmmm . . .

edit -- somehow read "first" for "most." Disregard all after "Tobruk" . . .
 
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no gun won stalingrad. people won stalingrad. millions of conscripts, and civilians won stalingrad
 
I dont know what to think about the bolt rifles. They were very effective in their day in BATTLE but now a days, Id rather have some kel-tec su-16 or other modern semi-auto that isnt a "battle rifle". I dont know if its a battle rifle or not, but Id rather have a ar-180 (or 180b) over alot of those.
 
The only thing on there that even deserves to challenge the Garand is the AK, and that loses simply because it has never been use by a victorious nation during a World War.

On a side not, who uses the AUG in large numbers? That seems like it has a very select audience.
 
The effectiveness of the select-fire M2 carbine was not lost upon Nazi SS troops, who actively sought to capture examples of the M2 to carry for their own use.

Sounds good, but it's pure bunk. The M2 was developed too late in WW2 to have been used against SS troops. Where do these wild tales come from?

Don
 
Has an AUG ever even actually BEEN in a battle?

Yah, I was wondering the same thing. Do the Austrailians use it? Was it used in Afganistan. I am pretty sure that Austria hasn't been involved in a sustained conflict since 1945 or so.
 
I dont know what to think about the bolt rifles. They were very effective in their day in BATTLE but now a days, Id rather have some kel-tec su-16 or other modern semi-auto that isnt a "battle rifle". I dont know if its a battle rifle or not, but Id rather have a ar-180 (or 180b) over alot of those.

I'd rather have a bolt gun (and do, several civilian and milsurps) over any mil-pattern assault rifle.

I ain't in a squad.
I won't be part of a fire team.
Firefights aren't won by one or two shooters with ARs, AKs, or FALs.
Playing point defense in a fortified position bolts long range and shotguns short range are still a very viable combo against anyone not from a mech infantry company.

With a bolt gun you gain the advantage of distance over most intermediate round weapons. No ballistic armor I am aware of will hold up against .30-06AP.

A bolt gun will usually be capable of mounting better glass and be more useful from prone, making one of today's hunter a serviceable TEOTWAWKI sniper tomorrow if he puts in the accuracy and stalking work now.

I tend to think box hangers for civilians are way overrated on the internet. Though many would be able to implement them effectively, most owners can't.

Besides, after all of the bullets from all of the guns have been fired at the end of the world, a Garand is a way better club/spear than any AR ever made.

If a "military" rifle doesn't have a steel buttplate, I am not much interested in it as an individual as opposed to a member of an organized force.
 
I suppose your right about that one. A mosin is one hell of a spear and can kick ass quite a ways away. I guess I dont live in open enough of an area. I still suppose Id rather have even some obscure rifle like an M-17s, su-16, etc. Not for the rest of my life maybe. But for a katrina like situation. Or a HD thing. I know its also sort of obscure but a rifle (which Im actually about to make a separate thread about haha) may of been overlooked. Its extremely reliable and accurate. The Daewoo line of battle rifles.
 
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