Total Disappointment

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miamivicedade

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Jan 1, 2009
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Well I purchased a CW380 for deep pocket carry last week. I finally got it out to the range today and, well, out of my first 50 rounds, I had 40, yes FORTY failures to feed or failures to go into battery. An additional 25 rounds yielded 20 additional Failure to Feeds, or failures to go into battery. Multiple ammo types and magazines were tried. It also had some problems loading the gun the way Kahr recommends.

This is the worst gun I have ever bought. It is crime that a gun that functions like this is allowed out of the plant. It's quite obvious that absolutely no testing was done on the gun. Further research online shows and details similar problems with these guns. I will never buy another Kahr again, and I currently own a CM9 which has worked well.
 
miamivicedade, if you take the gun apart and see any obvious flaws in any of the pieces, could you post pictures here? I think a number of the forum readers would be interested to see what went wrong.

I am sorry you got such a lemon, and I hope that Kahr does right by you. I have an old Kahr E9 that is a good gun, so they can (or could) make a good one sometimes.
 
Thanks Monac. I don't see much that stands out as a culprit. I did request an RMA with Kahr. We will see what happens. There are 4 to 6 week turnarounds according to the rep I spoke with a bit ago. My fear is that they wont even test the gun out after "fixing" it. They didn't test it out before shipping it. Had they checked it out, it would have been obvious that the gun was a problem.
 
May I ask what kind of ammo you were using? Unless I'm mistaken (which I may well be), Kahr is one of the companies that suggests a break-in period. It might prove helpful to run something on the hotter end of the spectrum for a few hundred rounds. (Yes, I'm simply repeating internet lore. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.)
 
I tired Remington, and federal ball ammo, and speer and federal hollow points. I can't even make it through the recommended 200 rounds because it failed so many times. It would not shoot more than 2 rounds back to back. After reading more on the internet though, I see there are loads of problems with these guns.
 
I'm very sorry to hear that. I don't own a Kahr, but they've certainly tempted me more than once.
 
I tired Remington, and federal ball ammo, and speer and federal hollow points.
Just a data point, but there are lots of reports of Gen 4 9mm Glocks (especially when they were first released) and 9mm HK's having problems with 115gr ammo, especially training ammo, when these guns are new. Using more powerful ammo eventually "breaks in" these recoil springs until they can run any 9mm ammo. These are very reliable guns (9mm Glocks and HKs), it is just the ammo is too weak when the guns are new.

I don't know if that is the problem you are having, but it might be a possible solution.
 
The Kahr CW380 appears to be the biggest culprit with problems. Kahr recommends a thorough cleaning prior to use. I use BreakClean. They even have a small hole in the inner part of the slide to spray through to clean out the striker channel. Once cleaned and lubed Kahr recommends only loading via the slide stop. Sling shots won't work until the gun is fully broken in as they are very strongly sprung.

I have had a CM9, PM9, K9 MK9 and CW9 and none of them gave me a problem. My biggest problem with Kahrs is finding night sights and getting used to the very long trigger pull.

PS. Also check your magazine springs to see that they are installed correctly.
 
That sucks. Sorry to hear this...
I have a cw9 and it has always performed flawlessly. I read a lot on the net about initial cleaning, and even polished the feed ramp. I've shot mostly cheap range ammo ( win white box and the like) and carry with federal hollow points. No problems what so ever. I love it.
 
Sorry to hear about that. I'm having a similar experience right now with a mill. I got one of those Sieg mini mills on sale with the idea that I could leave it set up for a single operation, as repositioning and retruing the vice takes 10x longer than the actual milling operation. Well, on high speed it makes this bizarre chirping sound, so now I'm playing this game with the importer where they send me a new part once or twice a month, and I replace it, then report back to them that the chirping sound hasn't changed. So far they've sent me a spindle, a new motor, and I've got a new transmission on the way. I've spent more time working on it than I have using it, probably by a factor of ten, and as a result I now know more about Sieg mills than I ever wanted to.

And here's the kicker. If they had taken 15 seconds at the factory to turn the thing on to see if it works, then it would have become immediately apparent to them that something was wrong and I wouldn't be dealing with this nonsense right now.
 
Well I purchased a CW380 for deep pocket carry last week. I finally got it out to the range today and, well, out of my first 50 rounds, I had 40, yes FORTY failures to feed or failures to go into battery. An additional 25 rounds yielded 20 additional Failure to Feeds, or failures to go into battery. Multiple ammo types and magazines were tried. It also had some problems loading the gun the way Kahr recommends.

This is the worst gun I have ever bought. It is crime that a gun that functions like this is allowed out of the plant. It's quite obvious that absolutely no testing was done on the gun. Further research online shows and details similar problems with these guns. I will never buy another Kahr again, and I currently own a CM9 which has worked well.
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Yes a common problem, some have attributed it to ammo with a thick rim, and Kahr has recently changed the extractor do deal with it.
Here's a related thread...and there are others:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread....TF-and-failure-to-return-to-battery-on-CW-380
others:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?28-P-and-CW-Series-Pistols
 
Some Kahrs exhibit problems. So did Caracals, the first gen Remington R51, and many many others. My CW380 wasn't cleaned, has fired at least 150 rounds of Monarch steel cased ammo, and functions fine with Hornady American Gunner. I did it because I too had read of some guns being temperamental and requiring factory service. However - we only read of the bad cases on the internet, never the thousands of guns which are just fine. "Kahr" may not be the problem as much as your specific serial number. As you say, the 9mm one has functioned ok.

By all means send it back. However, "fears" of them being less that able to fix it aren't something we can address. I fear that there is far more emotional assessment going on than rational - after all, a firearm that exhibits symptoms that severe is an anomaly.

For the most part I stay away from Federal and Remington unless I want to practice stoppage drills. The weight of bullets is also an issue, and not just in Kahrs. As for the "extremely long" trigger pull, it's not a single action like the P938 or a cocked 4566 TSW, and it's been measured as 1/10 of an inch longer than a Glock - about right in the middle of most revolver pulls. Long is a matter of perspective and it sure feels a lot shorter than the RM380 - I passed on it as I didn't like having to pull that trigger back to the frame.

When you get it back, fire it with defense loads - the extra $2 a box isn't all that and since it's not a range gun for practice the costs are minimal over it's lifespan. As for it's eventual carry, base that decision on it's performance as you wish, however, letting emotion be the main factor won't let you arrive at a well thought out conclusion. We read of many shooters who make those decisions and swear off an entire brand forever - shoot long enough and later - maybe decades later - you discover that your favorite is now the goat on the market and the one you dislike has the best model. Ask Colt about it - Uncle Sam even gave the plans to FN to get better quality M16's issued. I personally trusted FN more than Colt during my service, and even a GM Hydramatic gave better reliability, basic training beater as it was.

If you go look for a bad reputation on the internet about a particular model, you will find it. There are dozens of posters who can't get their new $1100 1911 semi race carry pistols to function right out of the box, and what do we hear? "I sent it back, it's normal for these." We all agree it's not supposed to be normal, but there it is - makers do NOT extensively fire and exercise a gun before shipping. If Kahr put 200 rounds thru it first - it would be used, more than that, none of these makers are in that business. Gunbroker is. And we all know how that could turn out.
 
Well I purchased a CW380 for deep pocket carry last week. I finally got it out to the range today and, well, out of my first 50 rounds, I had 40, yes FORTY failures to feed or failures to go into battery. An additional 25 rounds yielded 20 additional Failure to Feeds, or failures to go into battery. Multiple ammo types and magazines were tried. It also had some problems loading the gun the way Kahr recommends.

This is the worst gun I have ever bought. It is crime that a gun that functions like this is allowed out of the plant. It's quite obvious that absolutely no testing was done on the gun. Further research online shows and details similar problems with these guns. I will never buy another Kahr again, and I currently own a CM9 which has worked well.
That is a catastrophic failure rate. Cannot attribute that to simply needing a "break in" period. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Hope you get it solved or another pistol. And, if you please, a related question to your post. What is DEEP pocket carry? I pocket carry exclusively and, depending on the pants choice, the gun just goes in the holster into the pocket. Not much different any time. Just wondering. I have heard the term before I and I do not know what it means.
 
I was thinking of buying a Kahr and research showed either great or a major problem. Seems like they will fix them but is sucks that the turnaround is 4-6 weeks on a brand new pistol. Kinda BS that these problems are still being reported on a model that has been out awhile. A local shop stopped selling them because they had to send too many back. Everything I have read and herd is that once you get it running it doesent have problems. Its a neat pistol so send it in and sit tight.
 
That is a catastrophic failure rate. Cannot attribute that to simply needing a "break in" period. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Hope you get it solved or another pistol. And, if you please, a related question to your post. What is DEEP pocket carry? I pocket carry exclusively and, depending on the pants choice, the gun just goes in the holster into the pocket. Not much different any time. Just wondering. I have heard the term before I and I do not know what it means.

By deep pocket carry I meant deep concealment/pocket carry. Not a super deep pocket that the gun rests in. Sorry to be unclear.

Some Kahrs exhibit problems. So did Caracals, the first gen Remington R51, and many many others. My CW380 wasn't cleaned, has fired at least 150 rounds of Monarch steel cased ammo, and functions fine with Hornady American Gunner. I did it because I too had read of some guns being temperamental and requiring factory service. However - we only read of the bad cases on the internet, never the thousands of guns which are just fine. "Kahr" may not be the problem as much as your specific serial number. As you say, the 9mm one has functioned ok.

By all means send it back. However, "fears" of them being less that able to fix it aren't something we can address. I fear that there is far more emotional assessment going on than rational - after all, a firearm that exhibits symptoms that severe is an anomaly.

For the most part I stay away from Federal and Remington unless I want to practice stoppage drills. The weight of bullets is also an issue, and not just in Kahrs. As for the "extremely long" trigger pull, it's not a single action like the P938 or a cocked 4566 TSW, and it's been measured as 1/10 of an inch longer than a Glock - about right in the middle of most revolver pulls. Long is a matter of perspective and it sure feels a lot shorter than the RM380 - I passed on it as I didn't like having to pull that trigger back to the frame.

When you get it back, fire it with defense loads - the extra $2 a box isn't all that and since it's not a range gun for practice the costs are minimal over it's lifespan. As for it's eventual carry, base that decision on it's performance as you wish, however, letting emotion be the main factor won't let you arrive at a well thought out conclusion. We read of many shooters who make those decisions and swear off an entire brand forever - shoot long enough and later - maybe decades later - you discover that your favorite is now the goat on the market and the one you dislike has the best model. Ask Colt about it - Uncle Sam even gave the plans to FN to get better quality M16's issued. I personally trusted FN more than Colt during my service, and even a GM Hydramatic gave better reliability, basic training beater as it was.

If you go look for a bad reputation on the internet about a particular model, you will find it. There are dozens of posters who can't get their new $1100 1911 semi race carry pistols to function right out of the box, and what do we hear? "I sent it back, it's normal for these." We all agree it's not supposed to be normal, but there it is - makers do NOT extensively fire and exercise a gun before shipping. If Kahr put 200 rounds thru it first - it would be used, more than that, none of these makers are in that business. Gunbroker is. And we all know how that could turn out.

I ran plenty of ammo through the gun. I am not out looking to give Kahr a bad name. I love the CM9, at least for now, and will carry it over my Glocks, HKs, FNs, S&Ws, all which I own. I like it that much. My problem is that clearly this is no anomaly. I searched for issues with the CW380 and on Youtube there were plenty of reports, which only increased in number when i searched forums. Doing that tends to highlight known issues, which may help diagnose or identify the specific cause. Another problem is that many seem to want to give Kahr a pass and dismiss it as not abnormal "at first", or that it has to be the cause of poorly made ammo, or that the gun is so perfectly made to such tight tolerances that any deviation in ammo specifications will cause it problems. Let's just admit that Kahr has inherent problems. Maybe not a specific gun, which you mention, and which is likely true, but if there is that much deviation in what comes off their lines, then there is a big problem with either manufacturing, or quality control. No other pistol i've owned has ever been that bad. Not even in the same universe.

I called their customer service and within a couple hours the gun was on its way to the mother ship, cost paid by them. So, so far so good. But when I called initially, I was told that the problems I was experiencing aren't really seen by them, that either tells me they are lying, or that what I watch on Youtube, or read in forums, is a giant conspiracy to blemish Kahr's reputation. I'm guessing the former.
 
I was thinking of buying a Kahr and research showed either great or a major problem. Seems like they will fix them but is sucks that the turnaround is 4-6 weeks on a brand new pistol. Kinda BS that these problems are still being reported on a model that has been out awhile. A local shop stopped selling them because they had to send too many back. Everything I have read and herd is that once you get it running it doesent have problems. Its a neat pistol so send it in and sit tight.

Cabela's is closing them out. I saw one CW380 at my local Cabela's yesterday on close out sale. No other Kahr was there. Don't know if they had a bunch before, or never carried them, but it was at lease interesting to see.

I hear that sometimes they get fixed, sometimes they go back more than once, and sometimes after multiple attempts, they buyer is just left with a gun that doesn't work. I sure hope they sort this out.
 
I did that same research, and in the process found those who posted about a specific Kahr model seemed to be in the same chronological time span. Many of those previous models cleared up afterwards and two years later few posted issues. I also found some posters went around the internet making duplicate posts. As far as I can see, there IS some deliberate posting to trash Kahr, and the first thing that is common is when a post is made before the maker has had a chance to affect a repair.

It's very much an issue on forums - most that conduct themselves along a higher road of responsibility suggest to get it back and then see if the complaint is resolved, first, before posting about it. At that point, let the chips fall where they may.

Another gun I own had that exact issue, the SIG P938. Initially it was shipped with the .380 extractor of it's smaller brother, which was discovered to be problematic. SIG designed and installed a 9mm specific extractor after about SN#84,000, which stopped the problem dead in it's tracks. I made sure to buy a later gun. For the most part, SIG owners reported the issue having gotten the gun back, and it was to say it fired fine now. With Kahr, I see a lot more posts before that is done, and many are couched in highly emotional terms. I knew the risk when I bought mine. You say you did the research. The decision was made to play the odds, same as others have done.

I don't see justification in the outrage when due diligence is what is professed. Absent the makers repair or replacement it constitutes a drive by posting. Had this been a report of the gun still malfunctioning after repair - then disappointment would be expected. We could then move on to the next step, replacement or a refund.

In general - let's keep in mind, gun makers can't start up their product on the assembly line and drive it off to prove its manufactured correctly. I've been to a plant where the duds were parked off to the side and techs were correcting things to get them to ship. Firearms makers often don't even load one round to test fire, much less the 200 Kahr expects us to fire to break them in. That is a state of affairs across the firearms industry. We have to live with the current methods of production, and no, it's not always optimal. There are dozens of examples when we look into it - there is really no 100% guarantee any maker can give you, and the fact they print a Customer Service toll free number is the clearest evidence I can point at to show they would rather do it after the sale, not before they ship. It is what it is. Let the buyer be aware.
 
I will never buy another Kahr again, and I currently own a CM9 which has worked well.

A forum friend of mine had problems with his P380, given the problems he has had, and others, I would probably pass on the .380... but I have a CM9 and 4 CW9's which have been flawless. Stick with what works. I don't think Kahr turns out bad products, but obviously there are some teething problems with the .380 platform.
 
Well I purchased a CW380 for deep pocket carry last week. I finally got it out to the range today and, well, out of my first 50 rounds, I had 40, yes FORTY failures to feed or failures to go into battery. An additional 25 rounds yielded 20 additional Failure to Feeds, or failures to go into battery. Multiple ammo types and magazines were tried. It also had some problems loading the gun the way Kahr recommends.

This is the worst gun I have ever bought. It is crime that a gun that functions like this is allowed out of the plant. It's quite obvious that absolutely no testing was done on the gun. Further research online shows and details similar problems with these guns. I will never buy another Kahr again, and I currently own a CM9 which has worked well.

Had the exact same thing just happen to a new Kimber Micro [ 9mm ] that I had T&E'ed.

Called Kimber and they have a return UPS order in the mail already,so far I am impressed.with them = NOT the pistol.

The Micro would fail to go into full battery,by about 1 1/4".

5 different magazines and 5 types of ammo.

Best of luck to you,had a minor problem with a Kahr PM40,and they were very helpful.

That was a few years back.
 
Miami, you make my son & I feel like lottery winners. We each own a Kahr CW380. Both are reliable. He shot his for his carry license & scored 248 out of a possible 250. To me, that was amazing for a barrel length of less than 2.5". I think I'll keep mine!
 
I have a P380 that seemed awful when it was new. It wouldn't run S&B or Fiocchi at all. Remington UMC was mildly better but still not acceptable. CCI blazer brass made it seem like a different gun, it suddenly worked. Now that it is broken in, it is less picky. I still haven't messed with S&B or Fiocchi in it, my lcp gets those. I was really disappointed that a gun of that price worked out that way, but in the end it is a nice gun and we don't have any interest in getting rid of it.
 
Its tough when a company takes 4-6 weeks to turn around a pistol. And my local gun store that stopped selling them said they sent some back more than once. Imagine buying a pistol new and it need to go back twice for a total of 12 weeks!!! If I were to buy one I would want a used one I could test fire first.

The internet is full of repeated stories like the Smith revolvers lock failing for sure. But, I personally know that companies like Smith, Ruger, Glock, and DW turn pistols around in about a week so the forum threads come to conclusion. Kahr is not the only company to have problems, but the same problems on older models and slow turnaround time in not excusable.
 
From the manual

BREAK-IN PERIOD The KAHR Pistol must run through an initial break-in period before achieving fully reliable feeding and functioning. The pistol should not be considered fully reliable until after it has fired 200 rounds

I read that tearing it down multiple time and racking the slide over and over again will help loosen it up and let it go into battery.
 
Stories like this (and mag complaints) are what scared me away from the CM/CW series and into my Shield. While my Shield has been 100%, I keep reading kahr like stories about the shield.
 
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