Tough call: old 1911 - restore bluing or not ?

[Fun2Shoot]

I have a difficult decision to make about an old Colt 1911. Here's the story:

I inherited my grandpa's Colt 1911 US Army that was his sidearm during his WWI military service in France with an artillery battery. He kept it after his return to the USA

The gun is a fine shooter for a true mil-spec, but do to it's age and value, I only have put about 50+ rds down range with it just to check it's function.

Here's my delemma. The whole gun surface is in real good shape, no pits and just a few small scratches, but most of the gun has little bluing left on it and it has a fine iron oxide haze all over. Not really rust, just a fine patina of sorts.

I don't want to spend a $1500+ to get it back to original as was offerd by a famous gun restoration company in PA, but I am considering getting this old war horse a new high quality bluing job by a quality shop like Ford's Custom Refinishing in Florida. Cost of about $300 all told. I want to preserve the gun's finish, but at the same time, I don't want to greatly degrade the gun's value, if possible.

What are the pros and cons of this choice? Thanks

 

[GreenFurniture]

Leave it alone. It's a part of your history.

 

[RPBrown]

As a collector of sorts a friend f mine told me never to re blue. It will decrease the value of any gun. Clean it, oil it, and preserve it.

 

[Mad Magyar]

I concur about leaving it be...I reget refinishing a S&W 1917 revolver...Oh, it looks and shoots great for me; but won't bring much for my heirs...

 

[vintage68]

If it's meant to stay in the family, yer not gonna sell it, then why NOT reblue it if the reblue will help preserve it? Who cares about resale value when you're talking about an heirloom piece?

 

[earplug]

Engrave it

Jut A thought, have your Grandpa's Military History engraved on the pistol, add some embellishments.
Off hand I wouldn't reblue it in its current condition. But if you were to have it engraved, then you could blue it.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

Just A thought, have your Grandpa's Military History engraved on the pistol, add some embellishments.
Off hand I wouldn't reblue it in its current condition. But if you were to have it engraved, then you could blue it.

What a cool idea! I could have my grampa's name and 37th Infantry Division on one side of the slide and something like my Meuse-Argonne, France 1918 on the other and then have the whole gun reblued.

I'm going to think about that. Thanks for the idea since the gun won't be for sale, just kept by me or my son.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, don't do any refinishing until you determine what the original finish was. Most World War Two era 1911A1 pistols were Parkerized, not blued. The ones that were made between the World Wars were made by Colt, and blued - but using a process that is different then what is commonly used today.

In general, refinishing the pistol would reduce its value on the collector's market. That may or may not have some meaning for you. Parkerized guns were soaked in grease, with sometimes gave them a brown tint.

If you post a partial serial number (use xx for the last two numbers) it may be possible to determine what contractor made the pistol (it's not always the name on the slide) and what the original finish was, or at least should have been. Then you can make a more informed decision about refinishing.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

If you post a partial serial number (use xx for the last two numbers) it may be possible to determine what contractor made the pistol (it's not always the name on the slide) and what the original finish was, or at least should have been. Then you can make a more informed decision about refinishing.

It was made in 1913 by Colt and shipped with a batch of about 5000 (or 500, I forget) to an arsenal in or near New Jersey. I did a little on-line research after I inherited it. It has the Colt inspectors initials stamped in the frame just above the magazine release button.

So it's a blue job. Even has two rare acid-dipped magazines with it.

 

[Coronach]

I would not do a thing to it, besides keeping it oiled. Your grandfather carried it in the Great War. I would want to keep it as close as possible to how he carried it. That would not be reblued. It would not be engraved.

Besides, you have to think about the future owners of the gun, too; his great grandchildren, and their grandchildren. What would they want to get? Their great-grandfather's gun, or their great-grandfather's gun and whatever pimptastic thing you have done to it, that seemed like a good idea at the time but now (in 100 years) just rings false?

My opinion? Leave it alone. If nothing else, think very long and hard about it, because whatever you do in that regard cannot ever be undone.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

Another option, if you simply must fiddle with it, is to buy a second slide and do whatever engraving/etching/bluing/futzing to it that you feel like doing. Display it with the new slide. Yes, it will look different against the frame, but taht's ok. And oil up the real slide and put it somewhere safe.

A third option would be to get a nice plaque or shadowbox and display it in that, with whatever you want to say about your gradfather on the plaque, not the gun.

Please don't mess with the gun. I promise you, you will regret it.

Mike

 

[JDGray]

I inherited a CZ27, from WW2, and I pondered the thought of reblueing, but EVERYONE I talked to about it said leave it be.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

....and whatever pimptastic thing you have done to it, that seemed like a good idea at the time but now (in 100 years) just rings false?

"Pimptastic"! ROTFL That's great. Yeah, you may just be the voice of reason that I asked for in my topic line.

I wonder what ol' Grandpa would say? To him, it was probably just a tool, but then again, the men on my father's side of the family were not long on verbal expression, so maybe it was very sentimental to Gramp's. I don't know.

Well, the gun has gone this long (since 1913) with it's original blue job, so there's no rush here.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I also have an old Navy Colt 1911 (not an A1) that was passed to me from a relative. My great-uncle was a torpedoman chief in World War II and he brought the Colt home with him when he retired in the 50's. The walnut grips are worn and a lot of the bluing is gone. Still, I would never think of refinishing it. I just keep it oiled and think about what every little scratch or worn spot might have meant. I have some pics of her on my website, here: http://users.adelphia.net/~navy87guy/M1911.html You can see how worn she is, but she's going to stay that way!

Just my $0.02 worth...

Jim

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

If it's meant to stay in the family, yer not gonna sell it, then why NOT reblue it if the reblue will help preserve it? Who cares about resale value when you're talking about an heirloom piece?

That's my take on this issue as well. If you had your grand dad's old 57 Chevy, and it needed a paint job, you wouldn't hesitate. Bluing has a practical purpose, i.e., to preserve the steel. If all you care about is sale value, then don't touch it. If you would like something to remember your grandfather by, then restore it to the way it looked when issued to him during WWI.

 

[Jamie C.]

I could have my grampa's name and 37th Infantry Division on one side of the slide and something like my Meuse-Argonne, France 1918 on the other and then have the whole gun reblued.

To me, doing the above to the gun is no different from putting names, birth dates, wedding dates, etc. in the family bible... It's just one more way of preserving a record of a person's history that might otherwise be lost.

What it comes down to is this; in 100 years, would you like for whoever ends up with the pistol to know who it belonged to and what he did? Or would you like that information to be lost, since it's unlikely that any other form of information will carry along with the gun for that length of time?


J.C.

 

[10-Ring]

I wouldn't do anything w/ it other than a good clean & lube and leave it alone.

 

[Steve C]

most of the gun has little bluing left on it and it has a fine iron oxide haze all over.

As Old Fluff mentioned you are likely seeing a parkerized finish that the military used rather than blueing.

Any refinishing, other than a professional restoration, will decrease the value of the pistol by 50% or more so for the $300 you spend on a reblue you will turn a $1200 or more collectors pistol into a $500 shooter. If you want to keep it for sentimental reasons then leave it as it is. It will appreciate in value over the years. If you want a shooter, sell it to someone who will appreciate it for what it is and use the money to buy a good mass produced custom like a Les Baer.

Just my opinion.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

As Old Fluff mentioned you are likely seeing a parkerized finish that the military used rather than blueing.

His grand dad brought it home with him from the FIRST WORLD WAR. Those guns were blued, not parked.

Any refinishing, other than a professional restoration, will decrease the value of the pistol by 50% or more so for the $300 you spend on a reblue you will turn a $1200 or more collectors pistol into a $500 shooter. If you want to keep it for sentimental reasons then leave it as it is. It will appreciate in value over the years.

He wants it to stay in the family, permanently, as a memento of his grandfather, in which case resale value is meaningless, and he might as well restore it to its original finish, if that makes him happy.

If you want a shooter, sell it to someone who will appreciate it for what it is and use the money to buy a good mass produced custom like a Les Baer.

He wants to keep it. It has meaning to him beyond its resale value, or collector value that you might put on it if it were yours.

 

[Glockamolie]

Another vote to leave it alone.

 

[doubleg]

Leave it be! Its a part of history, and it shouldnt be disturbed.

 

[XavierBreath]

You can always, at some point decide to reblue this gun, but if you reblue it, you can never go back. It isn't the new finish that destroys the value and the history, but rather the polishing, the loss of markings, the rounded edges and dished out pin holes that destroy a gun's value. Expect to have that happen with any $300 reblue. There is a reason why Doug Turnbull is so costly. He does not refinish guns. He restores them. There is a difference.

The present surface of the gun is like a book that tells the gun's story. A rebluing erases that story and rewrites it anew. The pistol will never be the same as when your grandfather carried it in the War to End All Wars, but right now, it is as close as it can be to that.

Leave it alone. Oil it. shoot it. Cherish it, and pass it down to a relative who will do the same.

 

[R-Tex12]

Leave it alone. Oil it. shoot it. Cherish it, and pass it down to a relative who will do the same.

Amen!

 

[Fun2Shoot]

Good Point

....... but if you reblue it, you can never go back. It isn't the new finish that destroys the value and the history, but rather the polishing, the loss of markings, the rounded edges and dished out pin holes that destroy a gun's value.

That's a very good point. I wish that I knew how to use my son's digital camera to post a picture of the gun. You should see how clearly the patent numbers, prancing Colt and the Colt US Army stampings are. They have sharp and well defined edges. Even the inspector stamp is very clear.

The only thing my Dad changed out on his Dad's (my gramps) 1911 was the flat mainspring housing. He put on an arched one. I think that he prefered it over the flat style. His issue sidearm in WWII was also a 1911.

 

[roscoe]

I would not do a thing to it, besides keeping it oiled. Your grandfather carried it in the Great War. I would want to keep it as close as possible to how he carried it. That would not be reblued. It would not be engraved.

Exactly. Sometimes doing nothing is doing the right thing.

That doesn't mean you can't walk around the house in a Doughboy hat and puttees with the thing in your hand, yelling that it is time to go over the top and crush the Hun.