Traditions Pursuit LT or CVA Optima?

[ssyoumans]

I'm new to muzzleloaders but they have always seemed interesting to me ever since a fellow let me shoot his at the range one day.
Would like some input between these 2 muzzleloaders. Intended purpose is occasional target shooting for fun and GA muzzleloading season (shots less than 100 yards).
Bass Pro has the Traditions Pursuit Reaper Combo for $279. http://www.basspro.com/Traditions-P...er-with-Scope-Combo/product/10213490/-1825116

Local gun store has a CVA Optima combo for $329. http://www.adventureoutdoors.us/optima-muzzleloader-caliber-inch-stainless-steel-flut-p-42190.html

Both have real tree camo stocks and low end 3-9 scopes. CVA is stainless, Traditions is nickel CeraKote.

As far as quality, build, reputation, ease of cleaning/loading etc, one better than the other?

 

[arcticap]

I can't say that one is much better than the other because each has something different to offer.

The stainless barrel is an advantage over the nickel, but the nickel is also very nice, quite durable and rust resistant
They both have quick release breech plugs.
The Konus scope is a little larger and probably a little better than the Traditions scope.
I think that the Traditions receiver is a little bit heavier and feels slightly more substantial than the Optima receiver. I've read that the Optima just feels lighter and somewhat less solid to at least one person's dismay. The Optima is a good shooting rifle and some folks might prefer a lighter receiver.
The CVA has a one piece scope mount which some consider to be more sturdy.
I'm sure that there are people who are very happy with either one that they have purchased.
Cabela's has a Traditions Pursuit on sale without a quick release breech plug but with a 40mm scope for $219, plus there's an additional $20 off through tomorrow by emailing for an instant discount code. But it doesn't have the nickel barrel or camo stock.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...3Bcat104701680&WTz_st=GuidedNav&WTz_stype=GNP

 

[frontiergander]

Optima easily. Better materials, better warranty, QRBP, sweet triggers.

I own 2 Optima's so far and love them. I actually like them the most out of CVA's entire line up.



Another big down side to traditions is that you can not personally cleaning the firing pin mech. It has to be shipped back to traditions for service and i know of one person that did it and waited over a month and it still wasn't operating the way it should.

 

[ssyoumans]

I went over to Bass Pro to look at both of them. I think either will be a great gun. After doing a bit more research, I think I will go with the CVA Optima. I like the SS barrel, and 1 piece scope mount and the better sealing breech plug. I could feel the difference in heft of solidness.. giving an edge to the Traditions..

I am also going to try the Blackhorn 209 powder, seems like it has several advantages over 777 or Pyrodex. Easier cleanup, less crud & fouling, longer shelf life, temp insensitive, etc. Who knows, maybe it's just marketing gibberish, but I'll see about give it a go. Now, just have to wait for my B-day....

 

[txcookie]

would like to here more I am leaning towards the traditions.

 

[Busyhands94]

i have a traditions rifle and love it! if their inlines are as good as their traditional side lock kits then I'm sold. although i might get a CVA wolf to try these inlines out first, and see if i like them before i buy a more expensive one. i am kinda wondering about muzzleloaders with scopes. that might be an interesting experience. can i still shoot patched round balls or Minnie balls? i don't want to buy the expensive $4.00 bullets with the Lucite tips and paint job. could i shoot a patched round ball with just a 209 primer for some backyard plinkin' fun? that might be cool for when i can't get to the range or it's too rainy! i can set up a little area in the shed and put a target to catch lead on the other side, and then launch them over at 200 FPS or something slow like that. what a fun idea that is! I imagine i would need some nice and hot shotgun primers though.

i also had an idea of buying a spare breech plug and boring it out, then putting a small rimfire barrel, only like 6-7" long into the breech plug so that it's kinda offset so the firing pin strikes the rim. i could shoot .22 CBs into a pellet trap! or i could use regular loads to shoot squirrel and other small game! i could also convert it back to a .50 muzzleloader! that is a cool idea! i figure there are lots of things i can do with an inline. the only limit is my creativity and the machinery in my shop.

 

[arcticap]

could i shoot a patched round ball with just a 209 primer for some backyard plinkin' fun? that might be cool for when i can't get to the range or it's too rainy! i can set up a little area in the shed and put a target to catch lead on the other side, and then launch them over at 200 FPS or something slow like that. what a fun idea that is! I imagine i would need some nice and hot shotgun primers though.

Toby Bridges came up with a method to measure the relative strength of different brands of 209 primers by shooting a patched .32 ball out of an inline without any powder at all, and he then chronographed the average velocity of 5 shots of each. It illustrates that even 209 primers are not all the same:

With a variety of the primers, I headed for the range with the Green Mountain .32 in-line rifle and my chronograph. I started by snapping a couple of primers to get a little base fouling in the bore. Then I wiped the bore with four clean dry patches, exactly how I would wipe the bore between each and every shot. I figured this would give me the same amount of resistance for each and every primer popped behind the well greased patch and light ball. And for each primer tested, I fired 5 shots across the chronograph, then eliminated the highest and lowest velocity readings. The velocities of the remaining three shots were then averaged. And here are the velocities that were recorded for the following No. 209 primers...including the new "Muzzleloading Primers".

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML.....244 f.p.s.
Remington 209 Kleanbore ML ........318 f.p.s.
Remington STS...........................338 f.p.s.
Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.
Std. Remington No. 209 .................341 f.p.s.
Cheddite No. 209 ...........................347 f.p.s.
CCI 209M......................................379 f.p.s.
Federal No. 209A ...........................381 f.p.s.

And for comparison, we also ran the Precision Rifle "Vari-Flame" through this test, using both Winchester "Small Pistol" and "Small Rifle" primers.
Winchester WSP "Small Pistol" ........116 f.p.s.
Winchester WSR "Small Rifle" .........143 f.p.s.

[Unfortunately the page has been disabled]
http://www.Hpmuzzleloading.com/technical3.html

I don't believe that a .50 caliber lead ball would be expelled from a rifle barrel only powered by a 209 primer. But since it will expel a patched .32 ball then perhaps it would also propel an arrow or a ball made of a lighter material like wood or composite.

 

[Busyhands94]

i have made .454 balls out of wax and shot those, they seem to work well with just a primer and a few paper caps in the bottom of the cylinder. it's enough to spit it out at a decent velocity. certainly wouldn't want to be hit with one. they do get a dent if you shoot wood and they would sting to get shot with. i have also found that they are accurate out to 25 feet or so. pretty cool stuff! you need to put a little oil over the ball and make sure you put it right over the caps firmly against them.

 

[MCgunner]

I love my CVA Wolf, great trigger and accuracy and the tool-less breach block is truely tool-less. I've not tried a Traditions, so can't pass comment. The optima is an upgrade of the Wolf, similar design, more attention to detail and available in stainless.

 

[T.A.Sharps]

I really want to hear more about the Traditions also. I would love a T/C, the stock alone feels great.

...But if I get a muzzle loader I can't deny it will be a business rifle.
- Needs to be accurate/reliable out to 200y+.
- Needs to be affordable.
- Needs to be sturdy.

Currently I only shotgun hunt. I have to consider the cost of the rifle added too everything until the meat is on the table.

A $900 starting base price in using a T/C is a bit steep for a loin supper next winter.

I never have really seen any strong opinions though on the Traditions nor CVA.

 

[arcticap]

The TC Impact is a fine shooting American made rifle that won't break the bank. TC has a no nonsense life time warranty on all of their guns and Cabela's has a no questions asked return policy. So there's very little to risk by giving it a try. It's akin to being an economy model TC Triumph which is considered by many to be their most popular and most accurate BP rifle.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=586335&highlight=impact