Trigger Alignment Solution for Striker Fired Pistols

[ACIinventor]

To improve "point-ability" of striker fired handguns, the trigger alignment problem has to be solved. Hammer fired handguns typically had trigger alignments that were parallel to the bore axis. Striker fired guns could benefit from this better alignment arrangement. I have a novel way to solve this problem. The better the handgun fits the hand, including good alignment, the less work the shooter has to do for accuracy. The high hand position, for better recoil control, is a popular trend today. Current striker fired handguns permit a higher hand position but the trigger remains in the standard location, somewhat lower.
My H&K VP9 is a great pistol. But I have to constantly adjust the position of my trigger finger to get to the trigger center. My hand's grip places the trigger finger at the very top of the trigger. A better trigger alignment would solve this problem for me and probably many others.
I've contacted Smith & Wesson and Heckler & Koch about a partnership to develop this invention. Currently, under the America Invents Act (AIA), an individual inventor has a snowball's chance in hell at securing his intellectual property with the patent thieves hanging around.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I don't know sounds like a solution looking for a problem. I don't have any issues changing from sticker to hammer fired. Or going from revolver to pistol. But we all are different. For some your idea may or may not help.

 

[JR24]

I don't know sounds like a solution looking for a problem. I don't have any issues changing from sticker to hammer fired. Or going from revolver to pistol. But we all are different. For some your idea may or may not help.

Agreed, just takes practice with all of them, lots of dry fire and holster presentations and they all work fine.

I can line up a Sig, Glock and 1911 and run drills back to back with extremely similar times and results.

 

[Monac]

AClinventor, I may not understand your post completely.

A) Your post seems to assume that there are two kinds of trigger mechanism, which you call striker fired and hammer fired. I would call them Glock and 1911, because to me, trigger placement, which seems to be your concern, has very little to do with how the firing pin gets the power to crush the primer of the cartridge, whether by direct spring pressure or by the blow of a hammer. It is easy to design either firing mechanism to use either method, so I don't think calling them hammer and striker does provides the distinction you want.

B) I think that trigger placement relative to the shooter's hand is actually pretty variable. Most gun designers are concerned with compactness, but if they wanted to, they could design a pistol to achieve whatever placement is desired for either a Glock-type mechanism or a 1911-type mechanism.

C) Finally, the reason that shooters put their finger toward the bottom of the Glock trigger is that it is a pivoting trigger, whereas the 1911 trigger simply slides straight back. The Glock trigger is like a lever, and putting the fingertip at the bottom of it gives more leverage. It would be easy to give the Glock a sliding trigger like the 1911, so that placement of the finger does not alter the amount of force required. It would not have leverage, so the pull would be heavier, but if you want a light trigger pull, you don't want a Glock type trigger anyway, IMO.

I apologize if I have entirely missed your point, or am telling you things you already know very well. Because I am a pistol collector, and enjoy learning about the various ways automatic pistols have been designed over the past 125 years, I am somewhat jarred by the current tendency to divide them into "striker fired" and "hammer fired", but I realize that seems to be the current state of affairs for people who are shooters, rather than collectors.

 

[Jonesy814]

I have often wondered about the trend of undercut trigger guards to allow a higher grip because of just that. The higher you grip, the more you are pulling the trigger at an upward angle which in turn causes your to pull the shot to the side. When shooting for accuracy instead of speed, I tend to grip a bit lower to get a more straight back pull

 

[Riomouse911]

Hmmm.. are you looking to lower the hand hold on the rear of the frame.. or looking into bringing the trigger mechanism up to be more in line with the higher grip?

Stay safe.

 

[bdickens]

I'm not sure I understand what the issue is.

 

[DukeConnor]

He gone

 

[ACIinventor]

Hmmm.. are you looking to lower the hand hold on the rear of the frame.. or looking into bringing the trigger mechanism up to be more in line with the higher grip?

Stay safe.

I'm thinking of keeping the hand hold on the rear of the frame, and bringing the trigger up to where the index finger naturally falls when using a higher grip.

He gone

My apologies. My access to the internet is limited. I'll reply when I can.

 

[Riomouse911]

Gotcha. Sort of changing the grip to be more along the lines of the Tanfoglio Witness. (It may also require putting the rails inside the frame to lower the barrel profile or it would be really tall.)


(It has a pivoting trigger and a high grip rather than the sliding 1911 trigger.)

Seems like a neat idea.

Stay safe.

 

[JR24]

I'm thinking of keeping the hand hold on the rear of the frame, and bringing the trigger up to where the index finger naturally falls when using a higher grip.

Interesting to see what you come up with.

 

[JN01]

Seems like it would be easier to fabricate a removable backstrap (similar to the OEM beavertails) that restricts the high grip.

 

[ACIinventor]

Seems like it would be easier to fabricate a removable backstrap (similar to the OEM beavertails) that restricts the high grip.

I agree, that would be an easy fix for the alignment problem. But using a very high grip helps with recoil control. I would like to keep that recoil control and correct the alignment, if possible. I'm going to continue to research and see if my concept is technically viable.

Gotcha. Sort of changing the grip to be more along the lines of the Tanfoglio Witness. (It may also require putting the rails inside the frame to lower the barrel profile or it would be really tall.)
View attachment 990240

(It has a pivoting trigger and a high grip rather than the sliding 1911 trigger.)

Seems like a neat idea.

Stay safe.

Nice 10mm pistol. Thanks for the image.

Interesting to see what you come up with.

Having a different perspective can lead to innovation. I enjoy problem-solving. So when I think something about a firearm can be improved, I combine my military experience with my creativity to design a benefit for the shooter. The Angle Degree Indicator (ADI or ACI) was my very first success. I'm working with the FBI to get that stolen intellectual property back from the thief.
Do you know if anyone has considered utilizing the middle finger to actuate a pistol trigger? I'm aware of an old point-shooting technique that used that method. What I'm talking about now would have the index finger routed through a transverse hole in the lower frame, the middle finger placed upon a trigger, and the remaining fingers in the normal place on the lower grip. That index finger would be participating in the firm grip. For recoil control, such an arrangement would produce an even higher grip on the pistol. Any thoughts?

 

[Hangingrock]

Adaptability is a human trait. Example 1911 Colt XSE, S&W 4506 and a Glock 21, I have no problem accurately shooting either of the three previously mentioned pistols. Adapt-improvise-overcome solves problems!

 

[bdickens]

Do you know if anyone has considered utilizing the middle finger to actuate a pistol trigger? I'm aware of an old point-shooting technique that used that method. What I'm talking about now would have the index finger routed through a transverse hole in the lower frame, the middle finger placed upon a trigger, and the remaining fingers in the normal place on the lower grip. That index finger would be participating in the firm grip. For recoil control, such an arrangement would produce an even higher grip on the pistol. Any thoughts?

Yeah.

It's a stupid idea that both weakens your grip and now has your much less dextrous middle finger pulling the trigger. It has been thoroughly proven to be garbage.

Also, where are you going to put this transverse hole? I am unaware of any handgun frame equipped with enough unoccupied real estate for such.

 

[d2wing]

An answer without a question.

 

[danez71]

....... said to the inventor of sliced bread,,, and JMB.

 

[gobsauce]

As an engineer, I admire your resolve. As a shooter, there's a reason gun design has remained relatively stagnant over the years. Sure, we've improved on a lot, but there's a reason the 1911, a now 110 year design, is still around. It's like the forward assist on an AR, a solution looking for a problem.

I'll be honest, if your design ends up being an actual item, I'd probably buy it for the same reason I own a Hi Point: just to say I have it.

I'd love to see what you've got going on, design wise. I dare say, without actually showing us what you're doing, you're letting everyone come up with an abstract idea of what you're designing, which may either be on point or completely off.

 

[dogtown tom]

To improve "point-ability" of striker fired handguns, the trigger alignment problem has to be solved.

What problem? Millions of shooters manage just fine.

Hammer fired handguns typically had trigger alignments that were parallel to the bore axis.

Parallel doesn't mean squat.

Striker fired guns could benefit from this better alignment arrangement.

Because all striker fired pistols have identical "trigger alignment"? They don't.
FYI, people have different hands. Some are more comfortable with a Glock, some with a Walther, some with a 1911.

I have a novel way to solve this problem.

YOUR problem.

The better the handgun fits the hand, including good alignment, the less work the shooter has to do for accuracy.

Not necessarily.

The high hand position, for better recoil control, is a popular trend today. Current striker fired handguns permit a higher hand position but the trigger remains in the standard location, somewhat lower.

True for some, not for all.

My H&K VP9 is a great pistol. But I have to constantly adjust the position of my trigger finger to get to the trigger center. My hand's grip places the trigger finger at the very top of the trigger. A better trigger alignment would solve this problem for me and probably many others.

Maybe your problem isn't the gun, but your grip.

 

[jmr40]

Sig has already addressed the issue. And Apex offers aftermarket triggers for various guns to address this. They used a flat trigger instead of the curved trigger. I'm not sure how much of an issue it really is, but there are attempts to address it.

Sig Legion with flat trigger



Standard trigger.

 

[ACIinventor]

Sig has already addressed the issue. And Apex offers aftermarket triggers for various guns to address this. They used a flat trigger instead of the curved trigger. I'm not sure how much of an issue it really is, but there are attempts to address it.

Sig Legion with flat trigger

View attachment 992414

Standard trigger.

View attachment 992416

Sig's alignment looks great. But you may notice that the Sig's grip doesn't allow the shooter that high grip for better recoil control. Obviously, Sig engineers thought that the trigger alignment issue was significant enough to deliberately bring the grip curve down compared to my HK VP9 and other striker fired pistols. Designs often have compromises. This Sig pistol must be relying on other methods to handle recoil, likely a heavy slide. I haven't fired a pistol with a flat trigger yet. I did check one out at a gun store and found it to be pretty interesting.

 

[Zendude]

I’ve noticed this issue with DA revolver triggers. A high hold on the grip has an effect of making the trigger pull feel heavier than it is because the direction of pull is more upward rather than back. Whether it’s a problem is a matter of opinion.

 

[gobsauce]

I’ve noticed this issue with DA revolver triggers. A high hold on the grip has an effect of making the trigger pull feel heavier than it is because the direction of pull is more upward rather than back. Whether it’s a problem is a matter of opinion.

Isn't this "fixed" with a trigger shoe?

For the whole matter, I just realized that this would also apply to a hi point.

 

[HPJeep]

There's not a lot of room for trigger, sear, cams, springs, etc between the barrel recoil lug, frame and trigger guard opening. Would love to see your ideas on that.

 

[hso]

bringing the trigger up to where the index finger naturally falls when using a higher grip.

Doesn't that require a frame modification/redesign as well as a trigger linkage mod/redesign?

You're better path may be to design this frame for polymer additive manufacturing to accept an upper from another manufacturer. You could focus on the Sig so you could produce the poly lower to accept Sigs serial numbered component and test the market for your idea.