Trigger control and target acquisition

[Byrd666]

I'm a one armed shooter that needs help with trigger control and target acquisition. I almost always tend to pull to the right when firing. I've tried to compensate by aiming further to my left but, I almost always miss the entire target area altogether. I've tried holding the pistol at a cant of about 45 degrees to align with the target, then I either shoot too low or over the top of the target area. The target backboard is approx. 22" l-r and 24" tall at about the height off the ground of a fairly tall persons shoulders with a stick on bullseye type target. I know I really need to be shooting at a silhouette target but, for right now this all the range has. Any ideas, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Just ordered a copy of "Shooting to live" as was recommended to me and am waiting on it to arrive.

Just to let ya'll know, the cant is a counterclockwise rotation.

 

[MrCleanOK]

I've tried to compensate by aiming further to my left but, I almost always miss the entire target area altogether. I've tried holding the pistol at a cant of about 45 degrees to align with the target, then I either shoot too low or over the top of the target area.

You're trying to treat the symptom, and not the cause (or whatever the saying is). You need to correct the actual problem, which is that you don't know the right way to pull a trigger.
I recommend you get some snap caps (or if you can dry fire your gun, just do that), and work on your trigger pull without live ammunition. Do it around the house, whenever you can relax and focus on it. There are probably a million how-to's on the internet for how to pull a trigger correctly, so I'm not going to get into the actual mechanics. Just practice until you can dry fire without significantly moving your sights out of alignment. When you can break the trigger without moving the sights, then you are ready to try it with live ammunition.

 

[Shaky]

If you're pulling to the right, I'm guessing you are shooting with your right hand?

If so, and you are pulling the trigger with the last joint on your finger, pulling the trigger with the center of the finger pad and that may fix the problem.

 

[Byrd666]

Yes I am shooting with my right hand. My left side is paralyzed, so no possibility at all of a two handed shoot.

I normally pull the trigger with the first center pad, the area under the fingernail. As I was taught as a kid.

I do dry fire around the house, and quite often too. At least 20-30 times a day at various times. I don't see any, at least only slight movement, of the barrel or sights. Less than a 32nd of an inch of movement correlating with my heartbeat.

I don't have any problem holding my sights with my revolvers in SA mode, just my semi autos.

 

[Zak Smith]

The bullet will go where the sights point when the hammer/striker drops. The solution is to fix your technique so it doesn't deflect while you press the trigger. There are numerous books on it, or you could take a pistol class.

 

[Rexster]

Centering the pad on the trigger is not the correct technique for all handguns! You did not specify your weapon, but try centering the last crease on the face of the trigger. Another important factor is how the gun fits your hand. If the weapon is too large or too small, this makes things more difficult. We really do need to know a bit more detail.

 

[Rexster]

Probably the best tutorial I have EVER seen on this subject, on video, is Travis Haley's lesson on gripping the handgun, on the Magpul Dynamics DVD. While the overall lesson is about two-hand shooting, the weapon hand's grip is important, whether firing with one or two hands.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Could I ask which model of gun this is and at what distance you are shooting?

Also where are you located?

If you were close by, I'd get together with you to get your grip and trigger management straightened out. It is really hard to do without seeing what you are currently doing.

If I had to guess:
1. too much thumb pressure
2. bad alignment with your arm...can be caused by the size of the gun or your grip

 

[Byrd666]

The firearms are as follows:
Stoeger Cougar 8000 - a Beretta made in Turkey
Bersa Thunder 9 uc Pro
Taurus model 66 4" barrel
S & W 686 2 1/2" barrel - house gun

I have fairly large hands and the 2 semi autos feel pretty good in my hand, not a lot of slop or play and the Bersa feels balanced. The Cougar is a bigger framed weapon and had a lot more grip area but, it doesn't feel quite right anymore when I'm shooting. I had bought it after remembering how well a buddy of mines Beretta Cougar felt when we popped off a few in the "backyard"a few years ago.

I mean, I can pretty much hit the target backboard at 25 & 15 yards,mostly shooting 15, just not the 12" target itself too often. About one round in 20 get into the "score" zone. With the Taurus I can get +- 1 in 4 in the center ring when i fire as single action.The range is an outdoor range that is set up with target stands at 50- 25- 15 yards and no silhouette target stands that I've found yet. Hence the 15 yard shooting.

9mm - I live in the East Texas area, so it might be a lil' difficult to get together but I did bring up the links and am going to look at those as soon as I'm done here. I appreciate the thought though

 

[murf]

try rotating the weapon counter-clockwise in your grip. sounds like your wrist is bent back too far. make sure the gun and forearm are lined up straight.

pull the trigger finger straight back along your forearm when you shoot. just let your thumb rest against the side of the weapon. put no side pressure on the gun at all. the weapon should be supported by your palm on the backstrap and the second and third fingers of your hand. don't push or aim the gun with your pinky finger. same as the thumb, just rest it on the grip.

hope this helps. (also, develop a consistent follow-through).

murf

 

[Byrd666]

After thinking about it for quite a while, and doing a few dry fires, I've realized I'll never be a marksman again.

My thumb is at "rest" along the side. I have, to my best recollection, not limp wristed. Except for the few times I tried to found out how each weapon would respond. Good for both by the way, now that the Stoeger was exchanged/fixed. And I try to keep pressure, of sorts, in the web of my palm. Forefinger on trigger, thumb webbing controlling, pinky, or ring finger aligning, wrist is firm, and elbow bent a touch to absorb. If I remember as my training stated. Pull trigger through without jerking.

Any ideas?

Addendum - Shooting with the Taurus is ALWAYS a perfect 90 degree shot. No cant, or change in alignment of sights. Just lift, sight, pull the trigger. Though this system only works in SA/ Cocked and ready. Is it my choice of weapons/sidearms, or triggers, or am I just a bad shot, and right it off?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Well, as a marksman you'd have to hold the gun vertically...however, if shooting for defense, you could cant the sights slightly counter-clockwise to bring more arm muscles into play

 

[bikerdoc]

Just a thought, What kind of grips?

 

[Byrd666]

Stock grips. Haven't found any decent aftermarket for the Bersa yet. Am undecided on keeping the Cougar, so I haven't looked for any for it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

On the Cougar...it has been a while since I've handled one...does the rotating barrel cause the gun to twist into or out of your hand?

I'd personally consider something like the S&W M&P with it's lower bore line and adjustable backstraps...then I'd add the Apex Tactical DCEK to optimize the trigger takeup, release and reset

 

[Byrd666]

The Cougar's barrel rotation doesn't effect my grip, at least not that I've noticed.

It's funny you mentioned the M & P cause I've actually been looking to find one and see how it fits and see what options are available for me there. I'm getting to the point now that all I want is a weapon that I can feel comfortable with and shoot well with and I'll figure the rest out later. Such as the field stripping and such with one hand.

Going back through the motions when I pull the trigger, it just seems to take so long for anything to happen. Then the follow through to the reset just feels like way to much travel. I really feel more comfortable with a "shorter" trigger. Could that be part of my problem as well?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Not directly

It sounds like you are describing a control issue. Not the lack of ability to control, but a personal need to control. It sounds like you are trying to make the shot go off when the sights are aligned, rather then just letting the shot break naturally. BTW distance to reset, in a DA/SA gun, doesn't make any difference, as the reset occurs during muzzle rise

You're becoming invested in the result (holes on the target), when you should stay in the process (aligning the sights and managing the trigger)

 

[Byrd666]

So in a manner of speaking, you're saying I'm trying to force the trigger to act when (I) want it to act, as in forcing alignment and trigger manipulation and not LETTING it occur. I think I see your point, if that is what your saying. And the reset point is well taken.

As for becoming invested in the result, yes I am. I think that shooting at a target and putting a hole in the target where I want it to be is of prime importance. I know a piece of paper is just that but, having a perfectionist personality, I just want to be able to aim, pull the trigger and kill me a bit of tree the first time, every time. But, I do understand what you mean. Mechanics first, results later.

So a bit more practice is required.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That is, in fact, what I am saying

You're seeing the aligned sights appear on the target and you want the gun to go off NOW...but where the shot strikes is where they sights are aligned, not where they were when you initiated your press. If you are applying the full trigger weight to the gun, including travel, it is likely that it will move the aligned sights.


Refer to the third link in my Signature for how to minimize disturbing the aligned sights and minimizing the lag between seeing them on the target and your shot breaking. Once you've gotten the trigger management down...you'll be shooting inside a 3"x5" card at 15 yards by then...you can be more selective about where you want to place the shot exactly.

You can start shooting on a 8" paper plate (the flat part is 6") and work your way down to a small post-it

 

[Byrd666]

Makes sense. 3rd is all ready saved in favs.

Thanx for politely, though not always required, knocking some sense back into me.