Troubled By Pack Dogs or Wolves(?)

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Nom de Forum : You're right about your comments. In 2 close suburbs from my house, this past month there has been several run-ins with coyotes chasing and biting humans, killing dogs on the leash, with owners trying to save the dogs. Both municipalities have said they aren't out there, until someone shows up with another dead dog. One suburb, this past week, has had coyotes running in packs down their streets, grabbing loose dogs and cats as they go, the pet owners ask the cops, "What do we do, they're just coyotes !"
I lived in the country growing up, if a stray dog showed up, we chased it off, if it came back, SSS.
 
Here in Alpine (Brewster County, TX) we get coyotes in town occasionally. They don't last long.

We have gray fox all over the place. They will get housecats and go after small dogs if hungry enough, but my little rat terrier and my dachsund mix are enough to send them runnin'.

Worst critters here are javelina that come into town. Afraid of nothing. Oh, and skunks...

My family lives in south-central Kentucky. Periodically the locals will go out on feral dog hunts. I don't blame them. Almost everybody has chickens and a lot of people have feeder calves throughout the spring and summer. Also turkeys. Feral dogs are a big problem.

If I was a "government should solve it" guy I'd say dropping dogs and cats off into "the country" should be a felony. As it is, if you see somebody doing it you should be at least be able to follow 'em home and give 'em whatfor, but...
 
Kurt S. said:
My family lives in south-central Kentucky. Periodically the locals will go out on feral dog hunts. I don't blame them. Almost everybody has chickens and a lot of people have feeder calves throughout the spring and summer. Also turkeys. Feral dogs are a big problem.
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I live in south-central Kentucky*. Feral dog packs have been greatly reduced with the successful reintroduction of the Coyote.

Why?
Stray-dog=Coyote Chow.

I haven't seen a dog pack in 15 years.



(*I'm in Barren now, from Cumberland.)
 
I would fire up my backhoe and get a hole dug and a few bags of lime. You have checked with fish and wildlife and the other authorities so you know that your chance of wolves is small but I would set up a few game cams to confirm what you have. Once you have confirmed what you have yotes, feral dogs or cross breads get to culling.

One thing that may help.....wolves can not curl their tail so if you see animals of wolf size and they can curl their tail they can be shot.

I have had a similar situation and was authorized by fish and wildlife to do the culling and just get it done as they did not want the hybreds contaminating the local wolf pack.
 
berettaprofessor said:
But legal is different from what others feel is acceptable. Owning and carrying guns openly is acceptable in Texas but that won't keep you from being arrested for it.
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Being legal vs just doing what you think is acceptable is the difference between a responsible hunter and a poacher, or a criminal and a common citizen. As you have posted, violating the law makes you a criminal and open to charges/arrest even tho YOU feel what you have done is acceptable. Thinking what you are doing is acceptable even tho it's against the law, is basically the mindset of every criminal. My whole point is, why openly suggest, on a public forum, that someone break the law, and leave themselves open to be arrested and fines? Maybe even the possibility of loosing their hunting rights and the confiscation of their firearm? Not The High Road nor does it display a positive image of gun owners to others.

I don't know the laws in Mississippi or Alabama that well, altho I could probably Google them. But I don't need to know them. But as I and others have posted, the OP should or should find out before he does something stupid to jeopardize his hunting/gun ownership privileges. Any suggestion he do otherwise is just stupid in itself. Everyone here has pretty much assured the OP that what he has seen are not wolves, but depending on state/local law, whether or not he can indiscriminately shoot them for gettin' in his garbage no one has been able to answer. Years ago, here in Wisconsin, it was common practice to shoot any dog chasing deer. Do that now and odds are you will find yourself in jail and will probably lose the firearm you shot it with. You will also be responsible to reimburse the dogs owner for the dog and/or any medical expenses that occurred, even if the dog was running loose without a collar. Unless........you call a warden or animal control and they tell you it is alright.
 
Lately, I've stopped poo-pooing "wolf sightings" from unlikely places.
What changed my mind was a critter I saw one night here in Southwest Florida.
I live in a rather rural area and was coming home one night, slowing down to turn onto my road, when I saw a large animal I first mistook for a small deer by the side of the road.
When my headlights fully lit it, I could see it was the biggest coyote I've ever seen. It was staring down into a palmetto patch, all tensed up, cocking its head this way and that, ready to pounce on something.
By this time my car had nearly stopped, about twenty yards away. This animal glanced over its shoulder at me for a moment, then turned its attention back to whatever was in that brush.
I went ahead and continued my turn and went home.
The thing that struck me about this canine was how tall and leggy it was, and how red its fur appeared in the headlights.
Everthing about it looked like your typical coyote, except its size, legginess, and red color.
As soon as I got home, I googled "red wolf" and found out that there is a captive breeding program on a wooded island in the panhandle of Florida, and from time to time red wolves escape to the mainland.
I'm convinced the animal I saw was either a red wolf, or a red wolf/coyote hybrid.
 
In the eastern US there is speculation that wolves and coyotes are breeding creating a far more aggressive version of what is being called an eastern coyote. These animals are said to be very aggressive towards humans especially when they live in areas close to humans like near suburbs. So coyote attacks on humans is not a "non-issue".

Most of what we see are either coy-dogs or just feral dogs. Both are very dangerous. I'm not sure about the new cross-breed species being an eastern coyote or whatever. But attacks are on the rise.

Where I live we have coyotes and we have feral dogs. At the very least the coyotes are a nuisance animal and it is perfectly legal to shoot them at any time. Feral dogs are another story. It is illegal to shoot them which is monumentally stupid. I've had the sheriff's office tell me to shoot them anyway.
 
Gaucho Gringo said:
If it keeps up like this it will naturally sort itself out hopefully. Why do you think most humans have a fear of wolves? Because in the process our evolutionary development the ones that did not fear wolves didn't survive. Wolves have and will attack humans given a chance. Why do we have all the big bad wolf stories handed down from eons ago? There are no big bad Bambi stories. It was a matter of survival. Wolves behavior today is no different than it was 10,000 years ago, but a lot of humans have definitely gotten more stupid in the last 100 years. They think that all furry carnivorous predators are cute and cuddly and they will play nice with them. So let them go out in the woods unarmed and see how cuddly they are. It might do the gene pool some good. IMO the only good wolf or feral dog is a dead one. I value my life too much. Shoot, shovel and shut up.
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I say the cave men that used wolves to help them hunt lived a lot longer then those "scared" of wolves. Dogs came from wolves who man used to help him hunt and run down game hung around the camp getting fed. Even today you can befriend a wolf in the wild. Saw a girl in Alaska checking trap lines every couple of weeks and a wolf ran next to her snowmobile every time and slept outside her tent. I guess she must have fed it
 
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To all the folks suggesting a call to " animal control", or " the authorities" - get real. This is the rural South we are talking about, not downtown Pittsburgh. Animal control is likely nonexistent ( our rural TN county may have one person who primarily runs the local shelter, & will occasionally give advice on catching a stray dog, skunk or possum if it is a significant nuisance). Local authorities are spread thin & generally have higher priorities than chasing around the local woods & fields hunting stray dogs or coyotes.
The OP has already talked to Fish & game & I think to local law enforcement. The only help he is likely to get will come from his model 1100.
 
In the eastern US there is speculation that wolves and coyotes are breeding creating a far more aggressive version of what is being called an eastern coyote.
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I have no idea about the Southern animals, but up here in the East, there is no speculation whatsoever...Tis fact...

A study showed that of 100 coyotes collected in Maine, 22 had half or more gray wolf ancestry, and one was 89 percent gray wolf.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

75# though not common, is not rare here in VT for a mature male Yote...
 
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:


There's a simple solution just as close as your phone book. You need to get in touch with a----Vampire!

Just look under "V" in the yellow pages and have a couple come over. Remember to hang garlic around your neck, your wife's, and the baby's neck. Also, do not invite them in the house. :cool:

From that point on just set back and watch the carnage.:D
 
forward observer said:
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:
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In Mississippi, I thought the monster in fashion was called "Morpheus" :what:
 
forward observer said:
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:


There's a simple solution just as close as your phone book. You need to get in touch with a----Vampire!

Just look under "V" in the yellow pages and have a couple come over. Remember to hang garlic around your neck, your wife's, and the baby's neck. Also, do not invite them in the house. :cool:

From that point on just set back and watch the carnage.:D
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Oh, that's just cruel bringing in the bloodsuckers. But how do you plan to get rid of the ex-wives and their lawyers after they've finished with the wolves?
 
But legal is different from what others feel is acceptable. Owning and carrying guns openly is acceptable in Texas but that won't keep you from being arrested for it.
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Buck460XVR, I think you missed the point of the above example you quoted. Open carry is legal in Texas and yet several individuals have been arrested for it in the last few months. My point was to find out if it's legal and then still don't advertise what you're doing because in this day and age, somebody is going to still give you grief....arrested by authorities who just don't know the law or harassed by animal rights people, it still isn't good.


Any suggestion he do otherwise is just stupid in itself
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Hey, that's real HighRoad yourself, there buddy.
 
If I may with respect to Wolves:

Contrary to popular belief held by many, Wolves are NOT dogs, nor can they be counted upon to behave like dogs. They are NOT domesticated animals, like dogs. In fact, genetic evidence shows that dogs are not direct descendents of Wolves, but rather share a common ancester...meaning they're more like "cousins" from different family branches rather than direct descendents.

Wolf behavioral instincts are far stronger than the similar instincts in dogs. And behavior which you or I recognize in dogs as "friendly" may, in fact, NOT be friendly at all in Wolves. Stalking behavior comes to mind, for one.

My point is that if one encounters Wolves, you CANNOT rely on your preconcieved perceptions/experiences with domesticated canine behavior to safely interpret Wolf behavior and actions, most especially not for predictions.

So if you suspect Wolves, then the safe avenue is to act as if they ARE Wolves and be extremely wary of them. Do not turn your back on them and get to safety first and foremost, if at all possible. Any act against them should be taken from the advantage of a safe position, if at all possible.

And contact the authorities as well. Wolves interacting with humans on human property is a concern for all.
 
We have coyotes in the Cleveland area now. I live above the Metroparks and hear them howling in the valley below me. I've also seen prints in the snow in our parking lot.

Coyotes frequently prey on pets left unattended outdoors, and, in large enough packs, have attacked (and occasionally killed) humans.
 
A few people near my mom's place in northern AZ have trouble from time to time with coyotes. They live in a small town but firing guns on the streets is a no-no. Too much of a population.

The coyotes generally seem to prey on trash cans and other small varmints near the trash cans. She just started carrying a can of bear spray when she walks her dogs. The coyotes usually high tail it as soon as anything disturbs them anyway. She's never had to use it.
Seems adequate to my mind.
 
berettaprofessor said:
Buck460XVR, I think you missed the point of the above example you quoted. Open carry is legal in Texas and yet several individuals have been arrested for it in the last few months.
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Since when has open carry become legal everywhere in Texas? I was under the impression that both the top Democratic and Republican Gubernatorial candidates are campaigning that they are proposing an "open carry" bill that would make open carry for handguns legal most everywhere for individuals with CWC permits. Open carry has always been legal here, but you still hear stories about folks with a gun on their hip being wrongfully harassed by authorities. But this is folks that know the law, not guessing.

Sorry if you don't agree that the suggestion to others to break the law or to be ignorant of the law is stupid. Me, I'll stand on that statement.
 
Coyotes frequently prey on pets left unattended outdoors
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I saw a single coyote making it's way across the field behind my house as it eyed the family cats. I was standing outside when this happened. It finally saw me and retreated but I have no doubt that critter will be back for dinner. That one coyote is well known in this neighborhood it turns out. I've heard many stories about it since moving here a few months ago. It's huge for a coyote for one thing. It may be an eastern coyote but I've never seen what I thought was one in this area before. The last place I lived had a pack of coyotes running rings around my house all night long at times. I got photos of them on my game camera. They aren't very good photos though because the light was fading. But they never got close to the house. What I heard close to the house was wild boar.

Given enough time and enough interference from gun grabber types we will all be facing wildlife around our homes we don't want. At my house I own a neighbor trapped a bobcat just up the hill not to mention the numerous bears and coyotes too. I've seen mountain lion tracks in the national forest surrounding that house too. Those will certainly attack people.

We need the freedom to control populations. I don't want things like they were when I was a kid when there was hardly any wildlife here but farmers here have a terrible time with coyotes attacking their livestock. Just across the hill a man had a coyote den under his barn. Talk about putting your bedroom next to the kitchen!

Even the gun grabbers will be begging us to get rid of problem critters before long. They already are in many ways. Wild boar in Texas and Florida, nutria along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers (I saw one almost to West Virginia along the Ohio River), and then there's the Asian carp too. We can't live in a world that we don't have some control over. I do not like the idea of hunting whales or any endangered species. It's the invasive type species and the dangerous ones that make me wonder. Yes I know shooters can't shoot at carp now but governments are considering making shooting them with a shotgun a legal thing to do.

Gun grabbers have no idea what guns have done for mankind. Yes we've made horrible mistakes with them like nearly wiping out bison but times are changing and the pendulum is swinging back the other direction IMO. The world needs shooters whether they know it or not.
 
True. God gave Adam dominion over the animals way back when. They are not equal to humans, as the PETAs would have you believe.



I wish I had property that I could shoot wild animals on. Sounds like fun.
 
Potatohead said:
True. God gave Adam dominion over the animals way back when. They are not equal to humans, as the PETAs would have you believe.

I wish I had property that I could shoot wild animals on. Sounds like fun.
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There's a difference between dominion vs. domination. Dominion has nothing to do with needless/wasteful killing. But I assume you meant hunting in order to harvest the meat which I too support.

EDIT: another
 
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Here's a trick -- organize the women. Get a list of all your county supervisors and their HOME phone numbers and provide the list to the ladies. Have them call the supervisors at any time of the day or night when they see feral dogs -- "There are wild dogs in my yard!! I can't let my children play outside! Do something about it!"

Make sure the local media get notified, too.
 
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