True advantages of a progressive press for rifle rounds.

[Shooter14854]

Hey all, I’ve been reloading a few years now on my lee single stage press and am considering purchasing one of the many progressive presses out there.

My question is how much faster is a progressive press really. If I’m not mistaken I still need to pull the case out after sizing to trim, chamfer, debur and clean the primer pocket. That’s usually the longest/most tedious part of the process. Is there anyway to get around these steps with a progressive press? Thanks for the help! I’m just looking for real feedback if the $600 investment is worth it or not. I currently use a Lyman express case trimmer and a Lyman gen6 powder system which speeds things up quite a bit.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Even with trimming after resizing. Going progressive will speed things up. If your using a powder drop. You won't have precise loads. They will be fine for plinking ammo. I run .223 and 7.62x39 on my lee turret with the auto drum powder drop. If i want precise loads i cut the auto drum drop back and trickle up to my desired load.

 

[Obturation]

I only load on a single. Reason is, I control each step. I don't load cartridges I can buy cheap. I want to feel how each primer seats, I want to confirm each charge, I want to know I'm making the best I can. Not just pull the handle and hope I didn't just set up a squib that's going to blow my gun when it doesn't get charged or it gets double charged. I'll take heat for that comment, bring it.
Simple fact, progressively loaded rounds are not as good as loads that have been handled with care through each stage. If someone disagrees , I'd love for them to justify.

Turrets are great , same as a single with less set up. Progressives are great for blamo whamo range loads. If you want real precise cartridges or you load on the ragged edge of maximum there is no need for progressive . you can use a progressive as a turret in a way but at that point just get a turret . for plinking the progressive is fine , for anything that matters I don't think progressives are worth squat.

Just an opinion . quality over quantity is a thing, depends on which side of it you fall on.

 

[bihj]

Do people really trim every time the brass is reloaded???

 

[Walkalong]

With rifle brass, if needed, yes.

 

[AJC1]

I only load on a single. Reason is, I control each step. I don't load cartridges I can buy cheap. I want to feel how each primer seats, I want to confirm each charge, I want to know I'm making the best I can. Not just pull the handle and hope I didn't just set up a squib that's going to blow my gun when it doesn't get charged or it gets double charged. I'll take heat for that comment, bring it.
Simple fact, progressively loaded rounds are not as good as loads that have been handled with care through each stage. If someone disagrees , I'd love for them to justify.

Turrets are great , same as a single with less set up. Progressives are great for blamo whamo range loads. If you want real precise cartridges or you load on the ragged edge of maximum there is no need for progressive . you can use a progressive as a turret in a way but at that point just get a turret . for plinking the progressive is fine , for anything that matters I don't think progressives are worth squat.

Just an opinion . quality over quantity is a thing, depends on which side of it you fall on.

I agree and disagree. I agree in that I practice what you preach. There are fully animated Dillon Presses that can make match quality ammunition. Eric Cortina, and f-class John both use I believe a totally tricked out 1050. They must have 10 grand in their setups, and they use an auto trickler to measure powder. Yes it is possible, I can't afford a Ferrari either.

 

[garandsrus]

A progressive with rifle rounds is still quite a bit faster than a single shot. I normally size all my brass in a batch prior to trimming, so it is one pull of the handle so far. The only die in the tool head is the sizing die. After trimming and removing case lube, I run the cases through the press again to produce a complete shell. That is a second pull of the press handle per round. A single stage has up to 4 pulls if you expand the case mouth and use a crimp die. Add in throwing the powder and putting it in the case for a single stage.

The folks that think you can’t get quality ammo from a progressive press are just wrong. Progressive rifle ammo can be sub MOA. If a person is shooting benchrest you are using dies that require single loading and I am sure they produce more accurate ammo, but it is probably because of the dies, not the press.

One way to minimize trimming is to size with the RCBS X die. After the initial trim, the case should not need to be trimmed again.

A simple test to see if trickling to an exact powder weight is worthwhile is to load a batch of 10 rounds that are trickled to the exact powder weight. Load another batch of ten with 2 that are .2gr lighter, 2 that are .1 light, 2 exact, 2 .1gr heavy, and 2 .2 gr heavy. Shoot two groups and compare. Preferably, you won’t know which batch of ammo you are shooting until you are done.

 

[Nature Boy]

You have to trim after sizing on a singe stage press too, so that’s a wash.

But think about the sizing step by itself in a progressive vs single stage comparison.

On a progressive with a case feeder you can crank through a lot of cases quickly, sizing one with every pull of the handle. That’s where a progressive makes its money.

 

[Obturation]

I agree and disagree. I agree in that I practice what you preach. There are fully animated Dillon Presses that can make match quality ammunition. Eric Cortina, and f-class John both use I believe a totally tricked out 1050. They must have 10 grand in their setups, and they use an auto trickler to measure powder. Yes it is possible, I can't afford a Ferrari either.

I agree. If you want to put your life savings into fiddling with 10,000 little bits to get it done, cool. No average guy is doing that.

When I started handloading I weighed every 5th or so charge to confirm. In the last couple years I weigh every single charge. The pucker factor of trusting a progressive with a max charge is too much for me, maybe some folks are braver. I've seen too much variation even with good metering powders. Beyond that, when running a progressive how could a person know if a primer cup is loose VS softer brass that's being sized when you're pushing that primer? Can't . I'm not claiming that a .1 extra grain of powder over max is the end of the world but it may make a difference. i work on mechanisms for a living, never ever seen one that's 100% reliable, I'm reliable .

 

[Obturation]

On a progressive with a case feeder you can crank through a lot of cases quickly, sizing one with every pull of the handle. That’s where a progressive makes its money.

I deprime & size on a lee APP. fast as I can pull it. It is also a single.

 

[Shak3s1977]

I'd say you can make quality ammo on a progressive press. It would depend on your steps. Do you use a ball powder that measures within .1gr either way using a case-activated powder thrower? Are you going to hand weigh each charge and dump it? Either way your handling the cases less, and doing more steps with each handle pull.

If you want to use a progressive as only a turret for loading rifle, it would still be better. You could run 1 case thru at a time when doing rifle, but still have the option of running pistol ammo full progressive.

 

[jmorris]

My question is how much faster is a progressive press really. If I’m not mistaken I still need to pull the case out after sizing to trim, chamfer, debur and clean the primer pocket. That’s usually the longest/most tedious part of the process. Is there anyway to get around these steps with a progressive press?

There are a number of different ways to reload rifle on progressives and how much faster depends on the progressive and the method chosen. It is not uncommon at all for bottle neck rifle cases to need trimming to stay within tolerance and the fastest way is to use a trimmer on a progressive press. If it’s case fed, more than 1000 cases can be sized and trimmed, in an hour with a lot less effort than trimming 100 using a manual trimmer.



After the size/trim pass the loading pass moves along rather quickly with collated case and bullet feeders.

 

[bullseye308]

The best way to do it in a progressive is a 2 turret setup. One is setup to deprime and resize. Then you measure, trim, chamfer, and debur. Now you install the other turret and you prime, charge, seat, and maybe crimp. Doing it in batches makes a difference and will definitely speed up the process. If you have a lot of money you can get a setup that you just dump in components and watch it run from tumbled range brass to finished rounds, but that is overkill and out of budget for most of us.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Guys I know who shoot a lot of .223 use two progressive presses.

A Dillon 650 to decap, size and trim, then a Dillon 1050 to swag primer pockets, prime, drop powder, seat the bullet and crimp.

Many are now moving to the Lyman/Mark 7 10 station presses, which allows you to do it all in a single pass

 

[thump_rrr]

I only load on a single. Reason is, I control each step. I don't load cartridges I can buy cheap. I want to feel how each primer seats, I want to confirm each charge, I want to know I'm making the best I can. Not just pull the handle and hope I didn't just set up a squib that's going to blow my gun when it doesn't get charged or it gets double charged. I'll take heat for that comment, bring it.
Simple fact, progressively loaded rounds are not as good as loads that have been handled with care through each stage. If someone disagrees , I'd love for them to justify.

Turrets are great , same as a single with less set up. Progressives are great for blamo whamo range loads. If you want real precise cartridges or you load on the ragged edge of maximum there is no need for progressive . you can use a progressive as a turret in a way but at that point just get a turret . for plinking the progressive is fine , for anything that matters I don't think progressives are worth squat.

Just an opinion . quality over quantity is a thing, depends on which side of it you fall on.

With the Hornady LnL progressive you feel the primers going in the same as you do a single stage or a hand primer.

If you have an accurate load on a node it should be accurate +/- 0.2 grains. The powder dispenser on my Hornady can keep +/- 0.1 when using spherical powders or relatively short extruded powders such as IMR 8208 XBR. I’ve gotten 1 MOA accuracy out of my Noveske Afghan with ammo loaded on my progressive which is fine for service rifle competition.
Even now with my AutoTricklerV4 I wouldn’t even contemplate trying to load 500 rounds of .223 on a single stage.

Trying to get 0.25 MOA loads to be shot in a 1MOA rifle is pointless.

I don’t load my 6.5 CM, 308, or 338 LM precision rifles on the progressive but I’ve loaded 308 for my M1A National Match that is shot out to 600M with 1 MOA accuracy.

There is definitely a trade off between precision and ease of loading and it’s up to every individual to figure out if the trade off is worth it to them.

 

[film495]

Do people really trim every time the brass is reloaded???

for range blasting .223, I don't think it gets trimmed every time, but the more everything is trimmed and consistent the higher end quality potential is there. if it is in spec, it doesn't need to be trimmed just for the sake of it, I don't believe, so personal preference is how I see it.

 

[badkarmamib]

Do people really trim every time the brass is reloaded???

I do. In the time it takes to measure with calipers or drop in a case gauge, I can make a quick spin with the Lee Deluxe Quick Trim and die. I trim to minimum each time, in case I accidentally miss one. I have seen firsthand the problems with rifle brass that is too long. Not pretty.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Like most others, 7.62x39 and .223 get time on the progressive but others go single stage.

Oops, forgot .300 Blackout as well.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I load .223 on a progressive. Mixed brass, no trimming, filthy primer pockets and with the right bullet and powder, they are very accurate.
When I want to pour a bunch of love into a cartridge I use a single stage press.

 

[emb]

A progressive press will speed things up significantly. I shoot 3 gun, so I burn through a lot of ammo for my AR10, .45s, and 9mms. For that I want and need something reasonably accurate. I worked up loads for those guns with a single stage then set up my dies and powder drops on the progressive. I pretty much just clean up the brass and load. I used to check cases for trimming etc, but found that my 308 and pistol cases didn't stretch much if at all. I don't bother with the rest of it because it, IMO, doesn't significantly affect accuracy for those purposes. For those calibers and for range use I load 500 to 1000 rounds at a time, and I can do that in an afternoon. No way am I going to load that many rounds using a single stage. Hunting and self defense rounds are different. I want consistent reliable accuracy. At most I'm only loading 50 rounds for those uses, and I don't shortcut anything in the process. Even for my AR10 I load all of those rounds one at a time with a single stage. As to cost, as mentioned by others, once you have the equipment, it's almost always cheaper to reload. Plus, your ammo is always available.

 

[lordpaxman]

My question is how much faster is a progressive press really.

LOTS.
It was the only reason I went from a SS to a progressive. I still use the SS for a few rifle calibers, but the high volume ones are on a progressive as are most of the pistol calibers.
I decided a case feeder is a must to speed up operations and allow me to focus on other reloading aspects. I also decided on a trimmer attachment like @jmorris posted so I didn’t have to measure every case - that’s a lot of time to do, or a lot of time saved. It’s expensive, yes, but in the end my time is worth something, and I haven’t found how you can buy more time.
If you’re worried about the powder charge in a progressive, you can still interrupt the process for every charge, weigh and adjust as needed, and it’s still faster than a SS. I do this by using the tare function on a digital scale, tare the empty primed case and then weigh after the powder throw. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[edwardware]

My question is how much faster is a progressive press really.

It's only faster if you're running large batches. It's far slower to setup, and requires excruciating attention because you need to watch 3-4 things at once (vs a single operation at a time). If you're humming along with the radio while running a progressive, you aren't paying enough attention.

If brass needs trimming, plan to decap, size, and trim in a separate operation. I usually don't, choosing to check for over-max case length instead, because bulk reloads don't really benefit from uniform trimming. This is MOA-ish ammo, not bughole ammo.

 

[jmorris]

for range blasting .223, I don't think it gets trimmed every time,

This is true; however, it takes longer to pickup and check every case than it does to run it through a size/trim pass on a collated, case fed press. If they need cutting, they get cut, if they don’t, they just get sized and deprimed.

 

[243winxb]

If I’m not mistaken I still need to pull the case out after sizing to trim, chamfer, debur and clean the primer pocket

1st time, yes. The 223 can be trimmed back .020" , should never need trimming again. Or buy an RCBS X die to size with. Comes in many cartridges. https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell-holders/rifle-dies/x-die-full-length-die-set/1000029.html

When I loaded for my M16, using Dillon RL-450, the brass was processed 1 time. Done.

Match grade ammo may benefit from the extra care, or not. Test it.

 

[Blue68f100]

I load my general plinking ammo on a AP. It's broken down to 2 runs though. 1st run is case prep run, size trim as needed. 2nd pass the brass is loaded without removing it to check once setup. I actually do a depriming pass so I can run the brass through the FART. Clean brass is easier to inspect. I check and trim by running all the brass through the drill press mounted trimmer with a 3 way cutter. It's quicker to trim than measure. Use this step to inspect brass. I use TAC or CFE223 for my powder. TAC will dispense more accurate than CZFE223 but both work just fine.