Two questions on Remington Model 31.

[mick53]

Hi guys,

I just bought this Remington Model 31. (Pics are at the bottom of the page).

It's a 1941 series Model 31 and was manufactured in Sept. of 1945. The receiver is steel (not alloy) and the finish is the original finish. It has a 28" bbl. I'd rate it overall at an honest 95-98%.

I have two questions about it:

What would you estimate it's value is? (I paid a total of $303.53).

Second question:

I have read all of the Model 31s are "pump fire" capable, sometimes called "slam fire." But this one does not appear to be capable of this function.

I took a close-up photo of a triangular shaped part which can be seen at the very front of the trigger guard in the last picture. This is the part that seems to be locking it up and preventing pump firing.

What is this part called and does it indeed prevent this shotgun from being pump fired?

PS. I really won't mind if it is not pump fire capable. It's in beautiful shape and operates so smoothly I was shocked. It's 66 years old and looks almost new so I'm very happy with the purchase no matter what.

Thanks,

Mick - (pics are below)

 

[Gordon]

Obviously and maybe luckily you haven't fired that fine piece yet! That little triangular piece is the "slide release" or action release that allows the breech to open when the action is cocked. Make yourself familiar with the functions of the gun in a safe area before getting around ammo! PLEASE!
I have a bunch of 31s as they were the slickest pump ever made and I admire their workmanship. I never thought of "slam firing" or any such lunacy but I know Ithaca 31s and most other older designs mechanically allow such dangerous (and useless) practices.
Your gun is well worth what you paid for it! I believe someone has refinished it and installed a trap stock on it and done a very nice job. There were "trap" grade 31s in 1945 but they did not have a Monte Carlo stock . IF it was a 31 trap from the factory set up that way for a celebrity than it is a four or 5 figure item , but I'll guess it is NOT from what I see. Still worth more than $300 to the right person and would make a wonderful pheasant rifle IMHO.

 

[mick53]

Gordon,

Thanks for the reply. I have an order in for an owners manual that is dated Oct. of 1945 which should apply to this shotgun as it was made in Sept. of 1945.

It will not be fired until I am thorougly familiar with it. This I promise.

Do you think you could be a bit more specific about the value of the shotgun. I mean I know it's worth more than $300 as you say. I'm just looking for a ballpark figure.

And finally, after I bought, and I only bought it because I knew it was "old," but still in fine shape.

After I did some reading I became curious about the slam fire aspect. Do you think it is capable of it or not?

I'm not a "slam fire" kind of guy but rather a curious one. As you said, get to know this shotgun before using it. That is my intention. And knowing the answer to the question is part of knowing the shotgun.

I'm looking at buying a second shotgun from the same fellow and asked a similar question about it here in another post. I just want to know what I'm getting into.

Hope you understand,

Mick

 

[simmonsguns]

The easiest way to check for slam-fire (which had it's usefullness, and should be understood) is to 1, make sure the gun is not loaded. 2,pull the trigger and hopefully hear the hammer "click" and Don't take your finger off the trigger, keep it in the fired state.3, pump the slide. when the hammer falls the on an 870 and you pump that gun, the only way to fire it again is to release the trigger so it resets. on an ITG 37 and Rem 31(and other some others) it fires when you slam the forarm forward. as it sits it's about $600.00. good buy.

 

[simmonsguns]

Mick53, look at the rib. is there a makers name on it?

 

[Gordon]

Here are good views of a factory Rem 1947 Trap gun, I can't believe it sold for under $800! Notice no monte carlo comb on butt stock. Different checkering patterns ect. Still since you gun is redone but in great shape I'd say $500, maybe.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/95637489...ngton_Model_31_TC_1947_2_Barrel_Set_w_cas.htm

 

[Tom Held]

why

Now I'm curious. Why would anyone want to slam fire a shotgun? What's the point?

 

[mick53]

Paul,

Son of a gun. The rib says, "Simmons Gun Specialties Inc., Kansas City, MO.

Is this good or bad?

I hope you're awake. My curiosity is killing me.

Thanks,

Mick

 

[Gordon]

The company he works for did the upgrades? That figures and a complete Simmons converted gun is worth the $500 mark for sure.

 

[mick53]

Paul and Gordon,

This is turning into a "the more you look, the more you see," type deal.

Why the Monte Carlo stock? Think it was Remington or something else?

Barrel and receiver serial numbers match by the way.

The buttpad is a Pachmayr White Line.

One way or another was this a custom order by someone? Did Remington do this type of thing, manufacture the shotgun and then send it out for the improvements?

Or would the owner by the basic shotgun and send it out himself for upgrades?

Or maybe this is something else entirely?

Thanks you guys,

Mick

 

[mick53]

Paul and Gordon et al,

I can't thank you fellas enough for teachng me about what I have here.

I'm adding some more detailed pics of the rib at the bottom of the page since you expressed interest in it, Paul.

I'm most anxious to hear anythng else about this shotgun you might be able to tell me. Do you think it started out as a field grade hunter and was later built up for trap and/or skeet?

There are a couple of proof marks on the barrel besides the REP and the date code of DPP. One looks like an upside down three-leaf clover and the other looks like a pair of circular, old fashioned spectacles, just a circle connected to another circle by a straing line; something like this o-o, but the line connects the circles.

Do you guys think it was refinished as some point and if has been, does this add or detract from it's value?

Do you think the stock and forend are original?

The sight on the rib looks modern but as we've already established, and I continue to prove, I don't know much. Do you think it was added on or is original to the rib?

Paul, I think there may be more things about you on the Internet than about the Model 31.

You are so highly regarded in certain circles that all I can say is it's my privilege and good luck that you happened to see my post.

I apologize for all my questions but I'm excited about this. I don't think I'm going to sleep a wink tonight.

Thank you for your kind attention,

Mick

Mick

 

[Fred Fuller]

Now I'm curious. Why would anyone want to slam fire a shotgun? What's the point?

The point is putting as much lead downrange as fast as possible, which explains the 'why' of slam firing. Friend of mine used to be in a recon unit of the 101st in the late unpleasantness in Southeast Asia, and he carried an Ithaca 37 loaded with buckshot on the job walking point. He got to be pretty good with it over time, and when he came home he bought a 37 of his own. He could roll buckshot out of that thing the way a trombone player rolls out music, and could hit what he was shooting at as well. And he was the quickest at feeding the puppy I've ever seen.

Most folks want to slam fire merely as a way of turning ammo into noise. But it does have a use, in the hands of someone who has the discipline to use the capability properly.

The capability can also be a liability, when someone gets hands on a slam fire capable shotgun who doesn't realize what he's holding. The little PD I used to ride reserve for had a pair of Winchester Model 12 riot guns as the complete department armory, for example. One night they were going to mount a raid on a local shot house, an illegal bar that sold liquor by the drink. One of the LEOs along for the show from elsewhere had taken along one of the Model 12s. When everyone dismounted at the scene and entered, the visiting fireman thought he was racking a round into the chamber of the scattergun in finest Hollywood fashion- but his finger was on the trigger and the safety was off.

Fortunately for all involved, the muzzle was sufficiently elevated, and he only blew a chunk out of the ceiling/roof. But that single round also broke out most of the windows in the house as well, as the assembled miscreants instantly fled through every available opening like a flushing covey of quail.

 

[Gordon]

Can of worms and personal opinion on the slam fire issue. I too carried a Model 37 doing the Ashau Valley in 1970 and other interesting areas. Unless the sappers got thru the wire on a fire base it wuz a pretty useless weapon that comforted me when I wuz banging around. Later in Panama at the School of the Americas I had access to unlimited 12ga buck for that LAPD Ithaca 37 and practiced the slam fire trick quite a bit . I found the time the gun comes down from recoil you have plenty time for a trigger reset and aquire a sight picture. I also played with a Rem 870 with factory folding stock , folded from the hip for years as an LEO and got handy playing around with rapid fire buckshot on a bevy of targets maybe 7-10 yards away. BUT with either the slam fire or the Pistol grip you are NOT gonna connect on enough targets , outside a square short range, to do anything but keep someones head down. Training with Chapman at Starlite, American Pistol Institute , Saterwaite, Awerbuck and ITTS have indeed confirmed this real world fact and I thought I would share to keep from cowboying up a dead alley of flash not fact. Sure you can point a shotgun, but it better be very properly mounted if you want to hit even close targets with the unsighted technique in a high enough percentage to guarantee your hide and the safety of others. You aren't gonna do this outside a carnival, consistantly, with slam fire or a PGO.

 

[simmonsguns]

What Lee said. And i knew Gordon knew about these also but i get so many new shotgunners in with there new to them model 12's,31's 37's,97's etall that think there gun is broken when this happens to them. sometimes no damage sometimes new hole in there house and a pissed off wife. trench clearing is not something you run into these days out here in Olathe but there is a good reason these guns are still being carried and used in different parts of the world today.

 

[btg3]

The rib says, "Simmons Gun Specialties Inc., Kansas City, MO.

Earlier this year, I sold a 30 year old Simmon barrel for $300. It had the worm-glo sight like yours. Simmons is still in business and you can google to find them. I think this type of custom work now runs over $500 if you send them a stock barrel.

 

[simmonsguns]

Rib and blue for whole gun is $375.00, vent rib price and it goes up from there. the wood upgrade is real nice figured but still very useable. if you want a rib on a gun it is $275.00 with the reblue of the barrel only if it's a new gun thats fine but it won't match if the receiver is older and worn. We also do a full line of police custom shotgun modification work, my lead time on this is 6 weeks but i will get it done faster if it is needed for LEO work. There's alott of work that we do that is not on the price list, custom coating for CZ.USA 1911's and some of there long guns, custom builds from AR-15's to Zolli O/U barrel sets. ok, no more sales weasel stuff.